China in the Bible, eh?

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amarillo

China in the Bible, eh?

Lead

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Posts: 3531

(10/28/2009 21:40:13)

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the premier VPP institution in Singapore's been trumpeting the presence of China in the Bible for a good while now, based on Isaiah 49:12, "Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim." the Hebrew says:

.<ynys Jram hLaw <YmW /opXm hLa-hNhw Waby qojrm hLa-hNh

note that the last word there, highlighted, reads "Sinim," which shares the same root for "Sinite" in the following 2 places:

10:17

¹⁷ וְאֶת־הַֽחִוִּ֥י וְאֶת־הַֽעַרְקִ֖י וְאֶת־הַסִּינִֽי׃

Genesis 10:17

¹⁷And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

דברי הימים א 1:15

¹⁵ וְאֶת־הַחִוִּ֥י וְאֶת־הַֽעַרְקִ֖י וְאֶת־הַסִּינִֽי׃

1 Chronicles 1:15

¹⁵And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

now, the interesting thing is that while the Isaiah mention is highly touted (an amazing 18 hits on google at febc.edu.sg), the Genesis and Chronicles mentions are never mentioned (0 hits!!). in the Isaiah context, Sinim is mentioned in the context of the glorious Messianic restoration. the latter contexts, of course, speak of these same Sinites, whoever they be, as descendants of Canaan not too long after Noah cursed him (Gen. 9:25). hmm, i wonder why them VPPers didn't connect the dots on this one ... there are other options for Sinim, but Noooo Sireeee, it's either China or u're some sinister Bible-correcting, Chinese-hating liberal:

There is no valid reason to translate [eretz] as "region" except
for the sinister purpose of demoting the Land of Sinim into some Egyptian
outback.

Sinim as Syene/Aswan, Egypt (a la Dead Sea Scrolls, NIV, ESV, MSG, CEV, NLT, HCSB footnote)? not a chance!

accepting ONLY Isaiah's words n deftly sweeping Genesis n Chronicles under the rug seems pretty selective to me. cldn't be any racial chauvinism at play cld it?

http://metes.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/chinese-eyes.jpg

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

Last Edited By: amarillo 10/28/2009 22:22:58. Edited 4 times.

Euthymius

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Posts: 2183

(10/29/2009 05:25:48)

Are all those orientals trying to make their eyes like Caucasians? Shameless racism....

Last Edited By: Euthymius 10/29/2009 05:32:13. Edited 1 times.

Euthymius

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Posts: 2184

(10/29/2009 05:31:45)

But if someone wants to find "China" in the Bible, why not do it the old-fashioned Bible Code way: spell it out in Hebrew and go with the closest match. The letters CHeth Nun and He will do the trick, since vocalized they could be CHiNaH....

Of course the word is usually translated "encamped", but we all know how "code words" work, right?

amarillo

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Posts: 3534

(10/29/2009 16:56:02)

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Euthymius wrote:
But if someone wants to find "China" in the Bible, why not do it the old-fashioned Bible Code way: spell it out in Hebrew and go with the closest match. The letters CHeth Nun and He will do the trick, since vocalized they could be CHiNaH....

Of course the word is usually translated "encamped", but we all know how "code words" work, right?

quite right, Euthy. another case of the means justifying the end.

another trick often coupled with the Sinim ruse: "discovering" theology in Chinese characters--most notoriously in this book.

http://www.epm.org/artman2/uploads/1/create.gif

facile, to say the least. but as long as "souls are saved," it doesn't matter to pragmatists how it's done.

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

mko

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Posts: 745

(10/29/2009 17:03:33)

That's funny, it's 歩 that I associate with walking (might be a difference between Chinese, which I don't speak, and Japanese, which I speak with difficulty).

"Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."

amarillo

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Posts: 3535

(10/29/2009 17:33:28)

Administrator

歩 is bu4 in Mandarin, meaning step. close enuff for me!

but my point's that this entire etymological approach is specious n not borne out by history.

makes gt preaching points, though, if the truth weren't so, um, inconvenient.

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

amarillo

like i says

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Posts: 3619

(12/20/2009 13:05:01)

Administrator

Isaiah is invoked but not Genesis or 1 Chronicles when Dr Jeffrey Khoo meets these poor Chinese believers in Irbid, Jordan--who have little recourse to a concordance--and sells them this:

We capped our pilgrimage to the Holy
Land by worshipping with about a hundred
Mainland Chinese in the Chinese Christian
Church of Jordan who are under the care of
Rev and Mrs Clarence Chee, BP missionaries
from Singapore. I preached from Psalm 19
on God's Perfect Gift, and Mrs Chee did a
fine job as my interpreter. These Chinese
believers from "the land of Sinim" (Isa 49:12;
not "Aswan" in Egypt as erroneously rendered
in the NIV) are in Jordan to work in factories.
Although their life as factory workers in a
foreign land is very hard, they exude the
peace and joy of the Lord. Having accepted
the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, they
know of a higher life that only God can give.
We were also glad to see Pastor Maher of the
Irbid Baptist Church who had studied in FEBC
for a semester. The Chinese Christian Church
meet in the ...

wonder if they'll ever know that they've been set up for a grand epiphany--as sons of cursed Canaan!

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

soberxp

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Posts: 10

(12/21/2009 18:38:26)

Are all those orientals trying to make their eyes like Caucasians? Shameless racism NO,all those orientals trying to make their eyes like scampish rabbit

I don't believe" Bible Code " anymore.

"the land of Sinim" http://www.asia-pictures.net/china/xi'an-chengdu.htm is where I Am. if you know city of xi'an in China,Shaanxi Province province, Clinton's been here before.

http://forum.bible.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=12834

"discovering" theology in Chinese characters,yeah,I've been read that before.

hi amarillo

can u find some the "dragon" part in Hebrews,cuz I want to know how the word of Hebrews translate into "dragon" in english?
THX!!!!!!hope that u may help me.

Last Edited By: soberxp 12/22/2009 09:15:04. Edited 5 times.

amarillo

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Posts: 3625

(12/21/2009 19:05:32)

Administrator

soberxp wrote:

hi amarillo

can u find some the "dragon" part in Hebrews,cuz I want to know how the word of Hebrews translate into "dragon" in english?
THX!!!!!!hope that u may help me.

hi SoberXP,

i'm not sure i completely understand your question. i see that the word dragon/s appears about 30 times in the King James Version.

does this answer your question? if not, pls feel free to rephrase. Thanks!

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

soberxp

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Posts: 11

(12/21/2009 20:15:58)

hi amarillo

sorry,my bad english......okay,,I'll try my best!

In Chinese the word "dragon" is 龙, be made up of 七 seven ，十 ten ， 、（!!!head and horn??? i dunno）。
what I want to know is,In Hebrew the word "dragon" is ??what??.
or KJV has been translated from Hebrew or Greek . why and How translate the word"dragon" of Hebrew into english?
I asked you,cuz I don't have the ability to search word of Hebrew.

thanks a lot!

mko

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Posts: 805

(12/21/2009 20:31:54)

Though wasn't the original Chinese character for dragon, before the '40s, 龍, one of the two glyphs still used in Japanese for it?

And unless you gave words in ordinary language, how would what you have said be understood? For you might as well be talking to air. 1 Corinthians 14.9

soberxp

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Posts: 12

(12/21/2009 20:49:14)

mko wrote:
Though wasn't the original Chinese character for dragon, before the '40s, 龍, one of the two glyphs still used in Japanese for it?

PICS for Chinese dragon, there are always have sun and cloud in these pics. before the '40s, 龍, be made up of 月 MOON ，立 stand ，rest part of glyph , and there is no word sun . that's too funny for glyph / hieroglyph / ideograph . cuz there are huge difference between MOON and Sun .

Last Edited By: soberxp 12/21/2009 21:06:53. Edited 3 times.

soberxp

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Posts: 13

(12/21/2009 21:21:02)

mko wrote:
That's funny, it's 歩 that I associate with walking (might be a difference between Chinese, which I don't speak, and Japanese, which I speak with difficulty).

歩 that means one step, Distance between left-feet and right-feet .or Take one pace forward, take one step

Last Edited By: soberxp 12/21/2009 21:24:48. Edited 2 times.

amarillo

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Posts: 3626

(12/22/2009 05:24:57)

Administrator

soberxp wrote:

In Chinese the word "dragon" is 龙, be made up of 七 seven ，十 ten ， 、（!!!head and horn??? i dunno）。
what I want to know is,In Hebrew the word "dragon" is ??what??.
or KJV has been translated from Hebrew or Greek . why and How translate the word"dragon" of Hebrew into english?
I asked you,cuz I don't have the ability to search word of Hebrew.

thanks a lot!

Thanks for rephrasing.

in Hebrew n Greek, the words translated are not made up of glyphs, unlike in Chinese. there is an article that discusses the meaning of those words at length. as u'll see, the meanings are somewhat contended--ranging from "jackal" to "sea monster."

whatever it is, it's probably better to observe the usage of the word in context than to rely on its etymology.

Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB

soberxp

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Posts: 14

(12/23/2009 05:48:00)

WOW,PERTTY GOOD. THX

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China in the Bible, eh?

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