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mko |
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The openness of this site is a kook magnet, I swear.
"Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the
minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
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Scott McClare |
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1Chr 9:11 and Azariah the son of Hilkiah, the son of Meshullam, the son of Zadok, the son of Meraioth, the son of Ahitub, the chief officer of the
house of God;
2Chr 9:11 From the algum trees the king made steps for the house of the LORD and for the king's palace, and lyres and harps for the singers; and none like that was seen before in the land of Judah. Yeah, I'm sensing an overall sense of a theme alright: random crackpottery. |
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normp |
evidence not compelling...fair response | ||
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I am unable to explain all aspects of God's numbering in a few simple messages. Before I can talk about their compelling value I first must at least
present the possibility they truly exist. It is really not possible for you to judge the value of these patterns before you understand them. If you caught a
glimpse of the value you would be very surprised, if not shocked. Here are some general value statements:
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normp |
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((Yeah, I'm sensing an overall sense of a theme alright: random crackpottery.--- The openness of this site is a kook magnet, I swear. ))
Trying to respond kindly..Let's say I'm totally wrong but am a sincere believer dedicating my life to the study of God's word. Are redicule and criticism the way to address someone you might otherwise call a Christian brother? Check your heart--I can handle the comments but if that is how you treat others you feel are week or stupid, God help our efforts to show others the grace and truth of Christianity. Truth is important and I have no problem being corrected, but it should be administered with Grace and I'm not seeing much of that amongst all the scholarly intelligence shared on this forum. Norm |
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Gary O 1 |
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So I guess my point about a person being able to make statistics say whatever one wants them to say flew over head since I got no response. I still think
that's all we've got here. No disrespect at all, Norm, but that's all I'm seeing with this numerology you are playing with. We can take these
random numbers and read just about anything we want into them if we are predisposed to. But that's far from objective evidence. Sorry, I'm not buying
my friend.
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"Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth" - Charlie Chan at Treasure Island |
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amarillo |
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normp wrote: ok, lemme put it kindly n directly--forget any "scholarly intelligence"--Norm, u can (like several of my teachers say) be sincere but sincerely wrong. so flee as far as u can from the worthless, idolatrous hankering after numerics n numerology n seek the plain n explicit Word of God. ok?
Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB |
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Exodus Six Verse Three |
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Hi Amarillo You said to another poster: seek the plain n explicit Word of God. ok?
Just where does a person find "the plain n explicit Word of God"? Exodus |
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mko |
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Pick a translation, any translation (so long as it's an honest one, unlike the NWT!).
"Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the
minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
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Wes Cottonhort |
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normp wrote:Norm, Here is the problem with your 'evidence' - You have presented an argument that cannot be Biblically proven or disproven. You present an interesting series of incidences, attribute them to divine design, and challenge people to disprove their validity. Since it is impossible to disprove such a premise, you conclude it must be truth and wonder how people do not see this clear message from God. However, if what you're saying was true, then the only possible way it could be proven true is by personal witness from the Holy Spirit. In other words, none of your arguments or persusasion would be adequate to defend your case in this scenario. |
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Exodus Six Verse Three |
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Hi mko,
I am not positive that you were answering my question. I asked : Just where does a person find "the plain n explicit Word of God"? You answered: Pick a translation, any translation (so long as it's an honest one, unlike the NWT!). mko, I don't believe that your answer is satisfactory if a person is seeking the actual name of God, as found in "the plain n explicit Word of God"? The KJB says God's actual name is " JEHOVAH" while the NJB says that God's actual name is "Yahweh". Both of these Bibles cannot possibly be "the plain n explicit Word of God"? CAN THEY? Exodus |
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SAWBONES |
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Norm, welcome.
I may be dense, but after reading your posts, I don't recognise any common themes among your listed "22" verses or among your listed "911" verses. I would mention also that I'd tend to consider any proposed Biblical revelational-divinational system or proposed pattern-recognition concept that appealed to the typical chapter (Stephen Langton) and verse (Robert Estienne) divisions, rather than to the words themselves, to be decidedly eccentric. It would of course have to imply a Divine hand in Langton's and Estienne's work, which in turn would seem to imply a sort of "late Biblical inspiration" (that is, post-closure of the Canon). |
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forcyncia |
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Hey, it's me again. I'm not comfortable with all the sarcasm and rudeness I see in your responses to Norm, who has been
nothing but a polite and loving Christian brother since he signed on. I mean, "Why?" I don't want to lecture or preach. Y'all don't need
that. I'm really unhappy with those responses. And the word "unhappy" is accurate.
This is too much like the KJVO-kateers' playground. I went over for a few days and was shocked and amazed, and I don't think I even got the full treatment. I just brought out John 15:12,17 and stuck it in the ground and stood on it. I didn't go around and try to find accompanying verses to support that. I didn't ask them to agree with me. I just shoved those verses of the exact Words of Jesus in their face and did not budge. Finally, someone said I had a loving and gracious spirit that was meant to work with the broken (I'll admit that). I do admit that I did do some dirty fighting back when I corrected Shain's grammar. But that was a good lesson for him. It wasn't just to be rude. It was good for him to see himself in error, and he could not refute me either. Things were very dicey over there, and they had to make new rules to roust anyone off their board that they wanted to. Well, it is their playground - their rules. Respect. Why not? The Word of God will stand for itself when stated - whether you whisper or shout! It will be heard. What is so frightening about listening and discussing with someone who comes with a different idea? We all can handle that. I can understand that the KJVO-kateers are not interested in dialogue There are tons of kooks, crackpots and charlatans out there trying to start their own religions. I've run into them, you've run into them. I don't see that in Norm. He has been nothing to us but a respectful Christian brother speaking kindly to bring forth something he thinks adds to his comprehension (not change but fills out) of the Word. He's different in his thinking. I don't know exactly what I think about the Numbers. I'm still in a quandary about it. The coincidences are amazing. I have checked out a couple things on my own that he did not mention, and I am still more amazed. And y'all have pointed out some instances where it doesn't work, or where other number-people were in error. I've had to learn the hard way that the Word of God is true. I rely on every word to test truths and untruths. This is an area I have just been introduced to not only by Norm but my truly kookie friends in Florida. I don't think this an incidence of post-closure. The verses and counting have always been there. And if I know anything about my Jewish friends, even for millenia past - THEY LOVE CRYPSIS!! Check out all the stuff regarding the tetragrammaton. I think that goes back a lot farther than we realize. Why wouldn't it be apparent? Because it's a secret - like all mystery schools. And secrets about God and His Name and His Word are a greater secret than anything else and to be absolutely hidden. I don't think the Kaballah popped out of someone's head in Spain in the 8th thru 11th centuries. Some claim it began on Mt Sinai. I could be wrong. Just my opinion. I'm sure greater minds than mine will immediately tell me - lol I know y'all are defending the pure Word of God. I am happy you are here for that. I think I even feel safer for you being here. Go for it! But - well you know: speaking the truth in love. luv you forcyncia
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Euthymius |
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Being as polite and courteous as I can, whether with Norm, Granny Grunt, or the various KJVOs.....I still do not accept nor respect claims about the Bible -- particularly those that are basically Kabbalistic or mystical
-- that cannot be substantiated by clear revelation or teaching from the Bible itself.
Norm: God told us he would be revealing much to us before he returned and it appears that time is close. Chapter and verse, please. And particularly show where the Bible speaks of any hint of further inspiration or "advanced revelation" being applied centuries later, even though obviously centuries before Christ's return (and yes, I am bringing up once more your heretical view regarding anti-Trinitarian modalism in which you have openly claimed that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, God is Jesus, etc.). And some people wonder how far tolerance and courtesy need to extend..... |
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SAWBONES |
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I too am in favor of courteous discourse, and feel Norm has been nothing but courteous in his short time here, regardless of what one may think about his
"verse-numerics".
It's easy to become "sensitized" to the more sarcastic and inflammatory KJVO's comments, like those of "Mr. Filipino". |
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amarillo |
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Exodus Six Verse Three wrote: arrgh, guess Exodus is still on that same ole same ole hobby horse again. talk abt getting stuck on the horns of a false dichotomy! well, i'm a-moverin on!
Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB |
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forcyncia |
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I'm not accussing anyone personally. I'm just thankful that you have respected the concerns I interjected into this
thread. You all are entitled to your opinions. Have at it - - -
happy day - forcyncia forcyncia
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normp |
Not intending to be obnoxious-- | ||
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Sometimes I think God must have needed a stubborn, never say die person to try and carry this
message to others. No matter how rough it gets, I hope I can continue until he decides to stop me or somehow I wake up to the error in my ways...
I totally understand people cannot see the preponderance of evidence as I see it and it's difficult if not impossible to believe things based on my word. I think that's wise. But there seems to me to be a clear bias or fear of numbers and the Bible. So much so that the thought of it wants to make us run. I suspect Satan has known about God's numbers from the beginning and has spent hundreds of years making sure we are afraid of numbers and see them as occult or new age. I think Satan knew they would one day be revealed and would be devastating to those that have dismissed the Bible as a bunch of stories written by men. Like so many other things he's taken things God made for good and made them evil-people are running from a miracle of numbers that God should be getting glory from. I like to think that God knew how successful those in these sophisticated times would be at discrediting his word and think it was mightily cool of him to actually store proof of the perfection of his word right in the Bible's we read today. The evidence of numbers cannot be destroyed because you can't destroy all the Bibles. Once the word gets out, everyone will know and spread the word even more. In the end, I don't want people to believe what I write but I would hope they would set aside their biases enough to look honestly at the facts.
It is not true that we can't be certain of the divine nature of a perfect numbering system. It seems similar to how many Christians defend creation as we state that the attributes and perfection we find in DNA cannot be a result of nothing becoming something. We look at DNA and the building blocks of life and scientifically know this could not have happened by chance. It is the same with numbers--when you come to realize their perfection, there is no other explanation for how they are put together than by a super intelligence we cannot understand--GOD.
For those of you who can tolerate another example or two (others just ignore it), I'd like to give two more fun ones. Even if you don't believe they are inspired, at least they are fun-- at least I think so. ---------------------- Deu 15:17 -- I've always found this verse to be odd and even wondered why such a strangely explained event is in the Bible. A few months ago I saw what I think is an amazing coincidence regarding it and suspect is is intentionally a bit weird to draw our attention to it…Deu 15:17 then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your maidservant.
It is interesting that in the year 1517 Martin Luther posted the 95 thesis on the church door and I think this verse could be pointing to that event. Not proof for divine inspiration of numbers, but it's one more of the hundreds of pieces of evidence I have. -------------------
Another fun one is the 180 verses that speak of turning around, turning back, changing ones mind, etc. All corresponding very well to a 180 degree direction change, half of things, a covering and more. I've included this in the next message.
There are clearly patterns here, if you chose to dismiss them as coincidence is your own decision. If you see any pattern at all, admitting that is not admitting the numbers have meaning but is simply evidence I hope would draw you to investigate more to see if there is any truth in the claim.
Norm |
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normp |
Have some fun at least wondering about these 180 verses... | ||
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Number 180 --Consider a number most all of us are aware of and can associate a theme with. The number 180 is associated
with 1/2 the number of degrees in a circle and we often hear people speaking of "doing a 180" in reference to turning around, turning back,
changing one's mind, etc. 180 is also 1/2 of a full circle and thus can be associated with things divided down the middle. There are other Biblical themes
associated with 180 such as comparing two things, deciding between things etc.
180 "doing a 180", turning aroundRom 7:19 For the good
that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
Ecc 10:2 A wise man's heart {directs him} toward the right, but the foolish man's heart {directs him} toward the left. (Notice how 180 is related from going from one place to another)
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Scott McClare |
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I'm sorry, but that last post shows just exactly how far you are stretching - not to find your supposed correlation, but to manufacture
it.
Case in point: "(robbed--Like thou shalt not steal-take away ---as well as a reference to being torn in two ½ = 180)." There's no mention of turning, 180-degree angles, or halves here - you invented all those references with clever wordplay. That's not interpretation - that's allegorization.
Last Edited By: Scott McClare
09/14/2009 22:09:26.
Edited 1 times.
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Exodus Six Verse Three |
Re: Best General Purpose Bible? | ||
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Hi Amarillo,
In your Post on : 09/14/2009 12:32:30 you wrote: arrgh, guess Exodus is still on that same ole same ole hobby horse again. talk abt getting stuck on the horns of a false dichotomy! Amarillo, I can only assume that your method [i.e. "seeking the plain n explicit Word of God."] must work for you to deal with what you refer to as false dichotomies. Do you find that God has preserved one and only one variant of the Vocalized Hebrew Tetragrammaton, in the various extant Hebrew Manuscripts or Hebrew Bibles, that you yourself have researched as you [to be redundant] "seek the plain n explicit Word of God." You seem to have a method that works for you to eliminate false dichotomies. Could you help me and all those who post and lurk on this discussion board, to know if you personally have determined that there is one and only one variant of the vocalized Tetragrammaton, that God has chosen to preserve in the extant Hebrew manuscripts, and in the extant Hebrew Bibles , that you yourself have researched as you "seek the plain n explicit Word of God." Please be as precise as necessary, with your explanation. of what "the plain n explicit Word of God" actually says. Thank you in advance for your answer. Exodus P.S. I am totally aware of how Bibleprotector deals with with issues like this. [i.e. The PCE always correctly preserves "the plain n explicit Word of God" ] , but I am curious as to how you deal with this issue. |
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