How do KJV-Only advocates explain the lack of...

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Gary O 1	How do KJV-Only advocates explain the lack of...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3 (07/05/2009 20:51:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None capitalizations for Jesus when using personal pronouns that clearly are talking about Him? Over and over throughout the book the KJV uses a small case "h" when talking about "him" or "he", instead of capitalizing the pronouns like the NASB does. I think KJV-Only advocates are being incredibly hypocritical on this point. They should own up to the fact that their beloved "perfect" translation doesn't honor the deity of Christ like the NASB does. Wonder where the conspiracy lies with this one? LOL I'd love to hear their explanation on this one. Gary ----- "Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth" - Charlie Chan at Treasure Island
Tatermonkey		#1	[-]
Posts: 258 (07/06/2009 03:35:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Your probably not going to get one. I was debating about a translation of a word in Psalms 78:36 which contains the pronoun "him" referring to God and the KJV didn't use a capital H but the NASB and MV's do. I brought up the point of this in my rebuttal which of course was totally ignored by the KJVO in question. This issue seems to be swept under the rug a lot. Also look up the inconsistent use of caps with Spirit when referring to the Holy Spirit. It would seem the use and non use of caps in this case have a doctrinal effect with the KJVO camp. He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent. -Saint Augustine
SAWBONES		#2	[-]
Posts: 247 (07/06/2009 06:37:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Welcome Gary O 1. Since the Greek has no punctuation (including the concept of upper v. lower case), the issue of English capitalization for titles or pronouns pertaining to deity is necessarily a rather arbitrary one. The original NASB made a point of not only capitalizing such words, but also of using the Elizabethan English pronouns when addressing deity. The NASB95 dropped the archaic English pronoun usage but retained the capitalization. Note too that this issue is troubled by ambiguities, especially with respect to the use of Spirit/spirit, since there are examples of verses where it is less than clear whether (when the Greek says merely "pneuma") it is the Holy Spirit or man's spirit which is intended. And as regards the KJV, different editions have used "spirit" v. "Spirit" inconsistently in different verses. The various KJVOers have different explanations to rationalize these inconsistencies, which boil down to varieties of fantasies about "seven steps of purification" and "regularization of presentation" spanning the years 1611-1900. I'm personally unconcerned about whether an English Bible translator chose or correctly interpreted whether references to deity should be capitalized, since the truth of the original is not compromised thereby.
AlFin		#3	[-]
Posts: 104 (07/06/2009 14:40:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The NIV doesn't capitalize the first letter of pronouns (i.e. he, his, him) when they refer to God or Jesus. It does capitalize the "S" as in "Spirit" when it is clearly known that the Holy Spirit is being referred to; otherwise, it is done in a footnote. Allen
Tatermonkey		#4	[-]
Posts: 259 (07/07/2009 03:10:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Some do and some dont use caps on the pronouns. But the translation does need to be consistent on this. He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent. -Saint Augustine
Gary O 1		#5	[-]
Posts: 4 (07/07/2009 06:52:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for all the replies, folks. I am aware of the issues when dealing with pneuma, so I can cut some slack there. But when it comes to the very clear cut references to Jesus in I John you'd think the KJVO camp would have some type of answer (even if it made no sense). That would seem to be the type of argument their proponents would use if the shoe was on the other foot and the KJV was the only version to capitalize those pronouns referring to Christ. The NASB has always been my preferred translation, and I do think it's strange that any solid, evangelical translation would fail to capitalize those pronouns. I realize it's not an end-all or anything heretical, but I'd love to know how the KJVO camp explains this. Thanks again, guys. Gary ----- "Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth" - Charlie Chan at Treasure Island
BrianT		#6	[-]
Posts: 1911 (07/07/2009 07:57:53) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	For what it's worth, the 1611 edition usually capitalized "Virgin" when referring to Mary. Brian
Gary O 1		#7	[-]
Posts: 5 (07/07/2009 08:44:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BrianT wrote: For what it's worth, the 1611 edition usually capitalized "Virgin" when referring to Mary. LOL. I hope no one misunderstands me. I realize there are no capitals in the original texts (because of the nature of the Greek language) for "he" or "him" in I John. And I don't really have any problem with the KJV or NIV not using capitalization when referring to Christ (echoing Sawbones' comments). I just think, based on the arguments the KJVO advocates use, that this would be a "sticky wicket" for them. At the least I'd call them hypocrites if they found no problem with this issue when they obsess on so many others. Gary ----- "Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth" - Charlie Chan at Treasure Island
amarillo		#8	[-]
Posts: 3293 (07/07/2009 10:59:39) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Gary O 1 wrote: LOL. I hope no one misunderstands me. I realize there are no capitals in the original texts (because of the nature of the Greek language) for "he" or "him" in I John. And I don't really have any problem with the KJV or NIV not using capitalization when referring to Christ (echoing Sawbones' comments). I just think, based on the arguments the KJVO advocates use, that this would be a "sticky wicket" for them. At the least I'd call them hypocrites if they found no problem with this issue when they obsess on so many others. Gary TECHNICALLYTHE ORIGINALWASINALLCAPSLOL Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Gary O 1		#9	[-]
Posts: 6 (07/07/2009 11:24:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	LOL. Right. I meant no way to distinguish "capitals" in the sense that we do when we call someone by name or what have you. Gary ----- "Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth" - Charlie Chan at Treasure Island
77		#10	[-]
Posts: 695 (07/07/2009 11:27:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	77: It was for the best that you did not hold your breath waiting for a KJV-O'er to answer you; you would have long since turned blue and fallen down. Really, I am going to guess that a probable KJV-Only response to your question would be something along the lines that the "correct" presentation is in the KJV. That would likely be the beginning, and end, of any answer you might get. "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."

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