PCE, Victory Faith Centre, etc.

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BrianT	PCE, Victory Faith Centre, etc.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1867 (06/17/2009 09:46:32) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I for one am very tired of the claims from certain participants here from Victory Faith Centre that promote the PCE. We can bat around the claims till the cows come home, but the real issue is their authority to make such claims in the first place. Bibleprotector and others, please explain why anyone should accept your self-proclaimed authority on these matters. NOBODY here is going to take any of your claims seriously until you do. Brian
77		#1	[-]
Posts: 641 (06/18/2009 03:39:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	77: It would seem that inventing a justification for one's self conceived "authority" is a laborious process....... "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
dcforrey		#2	[-]
Posts: 34 (06/18/2009 14:29:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So far it appears to me that the elders of the Victory Faith Centre base their authority on at least the following: First, an "apostolic mandate" given directly by God, complete with apostolic authority with power to execute judgment upon those who reject that authority: " The Eldership of Victory Faith Centre have specifically laid hold upon the Pure Cambridge Edition and have received it as provided by God, complete in its perfection, and the final form of the Bible (i.e. the final received text) forever. This shows that there has been an apostolic mandate given to the Elders, in discerning the correct text and in the bringing forth of the doctrine of it. " " The Elders are set up as guardians of the pure text by Christ, as indicated through divine providence. There is, therefore, an ordination of power of the Elders, in the commissioning of the Elders and of Victory Faith Centre, to put forth the perfect Word of God in English, namely, the Pure Cambridge Edition of the King James Bible, by all means and forms of communication, and to steadfastly continue in the doctrine of it. All believers who stand in agreement with the Elders are enjoined to hold to the same position. "LET every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. ... For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." (Romans 13:1, 4). The Elders bear "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17b). And, "Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded." (Proverbs 13:13)." Second, specific Scriptural prophecies regarding to the "Pure Cambridge Edition" of the KJV: "In Isaiah chapter forty-one, there is a prophecy regarding the chosen Word of God. It says, "let us come near together to judgment." (Isaiah 41:1b). The judgment is upon all the various Bibles, that is, modern versions versus traditional versions, all versions versus the King James Bible and all editions of it. The judgment is really concerning whether God has chosen the Pure Cambridge Edition or not. "The Bible then speaks of all other versions and editions, "Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought." (Isaiah 41:11, 12). "God then challenges all the various "words", that is, the false or impure "Bibles" and their backers, "Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together." (Isaiah 41:21-23). "The judgment on every other word purporting to be the Bible and not aligned to the Pure Cambridge Edition is revealed: "Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you." (Isaiah 41:24). This shows that the antichrist spirit has been behind the attack on the pure Word, and has been the one who has promoted false words, including the elevation of anything which undermines or questions the exact perfection of the Pure Cambridge Edition. In time, Christians should have always had faith in God and believed the Word, and the Spirit has progressed the Church in revelation to the acknowledgment of the Pure Cambridge Edition. The prophecy must therefore apply to a certain period of time or event, where both the Pure Cambridge Edition is fully revealed, and that all other words and the antichrist spirit are exposed." Note also the reference to "all other versions and editions" and "every other word purporting to be the Bible and not aligned to the Pure Cambridge Edition". That would have to include not only modern versions, but also all other English versions that existed prior to the KJV, since none of them are "aligned to the Pure Cambridge Edition". Last Edited By: dcforrey 06/18/2009 14:57:24. Edited 1 times.
77		#3	[-]
Posts: 644 (06/18/2009 15:15:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	""The judgment on every other word purporting to be the Bible and not aligned to the Pure Cambridge Edition is revealed: "Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you." (Isaiah 41:24). This shows that the antichrist spirit has been behind the attack on the pure Word, and has been the one who has promoted false words, including the elevation of anything which undermines or questions the exact perfection of the Pure Cambridge Edition. In time, Christians should have always had faith in God and believed the Word, and the Spirit has progressed the Church in revelation to the acknowledgment of the Pure Cambridge Edition. The prophecy must therefore apply to a certain period of time or event, where both the Pure Cambridge Edition is fully revealed, and that all other words and the antichrist spirit are exposed." 77: All that has been revealed here is Victory Faith Center's end justifying the means. Now, keeping in mind that God is NOT the author of confusion, try reading that paragraph critically. All you really have here is a series of disjointed, incoherent statements. That's it. Are these people incompetent, or do they so fully believe the lie they have concocted that they feel justified in their failure to justify their assertions? I suspect the latter. "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
dcforrey		#4	[-]
Posts: 35 (06/18/2009 21:25:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Note particularly the statement: "The judgment is upon all the various Bibles, that is, modern versions versus traditional versions, all versions versus the King James Bible and all editions of it." Note that the claimed "prophecy" from the Scriptures pronounces "judgement" upon not only all other Bibles, but also all other editions of the KJV.
77		#5	[-]
Posts: 645 (06/19/2009 03:48:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	" including the elevation of anything which undermines or questions the exact perfection of the Pure Cambridge Edition." 77: This mentality is different from that of a Reverend Jones mostly only in extent. "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
dcforrey		#6	[-]
Posts: 36 (06/19/2009 12:32:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Maybe I need to correct myself on my last post. As I read it again it looks like he may not be indicating that all other KJV editions are subject to judgement; rather, that all non-KJV Bibles are subject to judgement, but all KJV editions are not subject to judgement. Of course, if that is the correct interpretation it presents a whole different set of problems (even if we accept the proposition that the book of Isaiah contains specific prophecies related to one edition of an English version of the Bible).
amarillo		#7	[-]
Posts: 3227 (06/19/2009 12:40:10) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dcforrey wrote: Maybe I need to correct myself on my last post. As I read it again it looks like he may not be indicating that all other KJV editions are subject to judgement; rather, that all non-KJV Bibles are subject to judgement, but all KJV editions are not subject to judgement. Of course, if that is the correct interpretation it presents a whole different set of problems (even if we accept the proposition that the book of Isaiah contains specific prophecies related to one edition of an English version of the Bible). then again, we'll never know for sure. guess we'll havta wait for the latest revelation to emanate from the Victory elders this weekend. (yawn mmph?) Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Euthymius		#8	[-]
Posts: 1882 (06/19/2009 13:10:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob." (Isa 41:21). Given that "Jacob" = "James", perhaps one should see in this verse a prophecy of the King James Version.... Combine this with Jacob obtaining the birthright (Ge 25:33), and it looks even better....
Euthymius		#9	[-]
Posts: 1883 (06/19/2009 13:19:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here's another question relating to any "perfect" translation claims for the KJV (any edition): Why should the very same person whose name in Greek is identical (TIMOQEOS, Strong's #5095) be rendered "perfectly" 19 times in the New Testament as "Timotheus" and 9 times as "Timothy"?
gconan		#10	[-]
Posts: 977 (06/19/2009 15:13:38) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It remains a plain fact that William Tyndale's Versions of Scripture are better than any edition of The King James Bible. Or any other Bible for that matter. I offer as proof - any edition by William Tyndale.
77		#11	[-]
Posts: 647 (06/19/2009 16:18:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	gconan wrote: It remains a plain fact that William Tyndale's Versions of Scripture are better than any edition of The King James Bible. Or any other Bible for that matter. I offer as proof - any edition by William Tyndale. 77: Lol, DESPITE the fact that the only "pure" Bible today, in any language, is clearly the RSVse, I will, in the interests of ecumenism, let your enthusiasm for Tyndale slide.... "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
gconan		#12	[-]
Posts: 980 (06/19/2009 16:36:05) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Of course you must let it slide - for The RSV is based on Tyndale The Revised Standard Version Bible seeks to preserve all that is best in the English Bible as it has been known and used through the years. It is intended for use in public and private worship, not merely for reading and instruction. We have resisted the temptation to use phrases that are merely current usage, and have sought to put the message of the Bible in simple, enduring words that are worthy to stand in the great Tyndale-King James tradition. We are glad to say, with the King James translators: "Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one ... but to make a good one better."
BrianT		#13	[-]
Posts: 1875 (06/22/2009 15:44:47) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Wow, I haven't seen bibleprotector and his crew post on the board since I started this thread. If I had known it was so easy to get them to stop posting here, I would have started this thread AGES ago! Brian
77		#14	[-]
Posts: 660 (06/22/2009 15:49:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	77: I dunno about Matt the Aussie, but Kinny is over at the KJ Kult Klubhouse, soaking up the adoration of his fan; bragging about the spanking he gave somebody over at the FFF. "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
gconan		#15	[-]
Posts: 985 (06/22/2009 17:29:32) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	bibleprotector was at the which bible forum grossly misquoting the KJV translators, saying the opposite of what they said in the preface. I do not mean to talk about someone that is not here, but...
77		#16	[-]
Posts: 661 (06/22/2009 18:16:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	77: What's the skinny on that forum, gconan? Is that a KJ Kult site, or is it more of a balanced site? "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
gconan		#17	[-]
Posts: 986 (06/23/2009 12:18:44) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It is a KJV only board, but a good one.
jerryrose		#18	[-]
Posts: 409 (06/24/2009 05:01:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	gconan wrote: It remains a plain fact that William Tyndale's Versions of Scripture are better than any edition of The King James Bible. Or any other Bible for that matter. I offer as proof - any edition by William Tyndale. I disagree gconan. I believe the original text of the 1611 KJV is of God, and clarifies the Tyndale version a great deal in some passages. I have not read the Tyndale's versions all the way through, but from what I have seen, the 1611 KJV brings to light specific things that the Tyndale versions do not. Your statement of William Tyndale's versions being better to be fact is in fact opinion...not fact. Something can only be as good as that which is perfect....not better. So if your opinion would be that the Tyndale versions are as good as the 1611 edition of the KJV, then I can accept your opinion, though it would differ from my opinion that the 1611 KJV is better. However, to say that it is a fact that Tyndale's versions are better than the 1611 text, I must say that the fact is they are not, for the 1611 is perfect according to Scripture (Tyndale's versions included), and something cannot be better than perfect.
BrianT		#19	[-]
Posts: 1879 (06/24/2009 05:33:58) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"for the 1611 is perfect according to Scripture" If so, then please show us that scripture settle the whole debate for us, oh great teacher. Brian
jerryrose		#20	[-]
Posts: 410 (06/24/2009 06:25:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As for my view on the PCE, and all the other editions of the KJV....I know that they are not the same as the 1611 KJV in certain renderings. The PCE is not perfect, for it opposes the 1611 KJV in some places.

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