Yuku free message boards

Thanks for the welcome.

Wow! 6 welcomes. Thanks Sawbones, 77, and BrianT.

Never was welcomed at that other site...and I have never been a "trouble-maker" over there. Probably because I refuse to bow the knee to the Pope of Pensacola and his english correcting the greek lunacy. Nor do I think that Goofy Gail R. is someone that should be refered to as an expert on Bible versions/translations. Her wacko "algebra" puzzles in her book (which I tore apart and put in a trash can so no other people would be confused by her kookiness ) , are an embarrassment to anyone that thinks our Creator gave us a brain, and holds to the Bible as God's inpired written word.

I also refuse to buy into the lies and false conclusions of C.I. Scofield and his plagerism of Darby and others, which takes a meat cleaver to the precious Bible and chops off most of the Older Testament (except the happy Psalms) , and is not a true A.V. because Scofield changed the text and added marginal notes which change words/meanings. That is the very thing that the extreme followers of Peter R. and Gail R. hate about many of the modern versions...Yet on the website store of Pope Peter of Pensacola - he has the Scofield version for sale. { As the "injuns" used to say: "He speaks with forked-tongue".}

To be honest, the guy from Pensacola does know much information and makes many good points about the plethora of modern versions and paraphrases, but when he says things such as : Time (clocks) is/are set to Greenwich Mean Time (England) and that since airline pilots and airport towers speak english on the radios and much business is conducted in english... then we should not try to translate Bibles and N.T's into the language of the mother tongue of peoples in faraway lands. He and several others think the folks should learn english first before reading a Bible... That idea is completely contrary to the gents who translated the Bibles all over europe during the 1500's - into the languages of the common folks. Whether in German, or Spanish, or English, or Swedish, or Dutch, or Polish, French, etc..

I'm an A.V. guy and a member of The Trinitarian Bible Society, and have Edward F. Hills' book as one of my favorites on my computer. { His wife gave permission for it to be placed online- yeah!} . I don't use the term KJOnly - one reason which I don't is that "The Translators To The Reader" - The gents from Oxford/Cambridge/Westminster who actually translated the Bible starting in 1604, and published in 1611- never claimed that they were "Inspired by God". They were trying to make a "Good translation, better". If you don't have an A.V. with the Translators Preface in the front, then get a copy from the T.B.S. .

Used the NASB -(in The Open Bible edition) for years because it was a literal-word-for-word translation. Then one day a copy of Fuller's Book titled "Which Bible?" came thru our used book section at the store I worked at. He made some valid points which I had wondered about for many years. The most glaring problem was the way John 1:18 is worded in the NASB... never did like that phrasing. Or that several chunks of scripture are called into question by the brackets and footnotes of modern translations. I'm sure the Enemy loves that, but a Christian should not. There are several other reasons - most of which smarter men than I, have spelled out in the booklets/articles printed by the T.B.S..

Seems to me that Fuller was correct: We have too many versions out on the market and in the pews/churches. That leads to confussion and it also leads to the stupidity of the masses. Ghetto/Barrio/Valley-Girl/Surfer-Hippie speak has been brought into the pulpits (if your church even has a pulpit anymore) and the pews/sunday school classes and homes. I refuse to participate in the "dumbing-down" of the people and the degrading of the God who created us and the Heaven and Earth. God is high and lifted up and the A.V. exalts The Lord.

BTW-- "77" Hi there. Saw your post about the new Lutheran Study Bible... I thunk (yessiree I said "thunk") that there was one already done a few years back. It was called the "Concordia" and used the NIV as it's text, IIRC.

You threw me off with your avatar... thought you were a Jesuit agent... I tried to post a couple of pictures that would suit you better, but when I did, my whole post vanished into computer-land... aarrgghh! Had to re-type the whole post. Google: "pictures of Martin Luther" and four images come up. I tried to post his sit-down portrait, and the other is him nailing the 95 theses to the door.

Hello BrianT --- I'm here... but I do have a "day-job" gotta have some $ to pay the rent.

Actually ( Since you asked) , I've been over at that other site where you posted several times repying to Will Kinney's post(s). I was reading them again. Before that I was reading some of the posts/Threads here... and to be frank --- it seems that IMO, that if a poster holds to/admits to having a "KJV-only" point-of-view, and posts in the Section titled "KJVonlyism" , then that poster gets jumped on with "golf-shoes" by many of the group.

If you think I'm being "thin-skinned" then I'd suggest folks do some objective reading and look at the way the posts by "BibleProtector" were dissected and critiqued. BibleProtector and I are miles apart doctrinally (by his website) , but he usually makes one or two valid points about texts/manuscripts/versions and the English translation on his posts.

BibleProtector (and others like Will K. and Steve A. ) believe in/on a certain translation and are not subtle. On the other hand...(from what I've read so far) , nobody seems to be FOR a modern version - at least they don't mention it, but several folks here can't help themselves from being AGAINST the Authorized Version . They may not think they are, but... that's the way it reads to me.

Many will do logical backflips and spiritual handsprings, to use and defend Westcott/Hort/Tischendorf/Vaticanus/Douay-Rhiems/and the family which has descended from the 1881 R.V-1901 A.S.V... but they never tell the group what version that they like, or which one they promote/sell.

Hello Sawbones. [ and hello to the other folks also] That was a well worded reply. Thank you for posting something good.

As I mentioned earlier in the post above --- Goofy Gail Riplinger is an embarrassment to people who trust in Jesus Christ and have at least an average "IQ". Sadly, many folks who are KJV are thrilled that someone is on "our side", so they buy into her nonsense.

Her logic ( in my paraphrased form) would be something like this: Fire Trucks are painted red. Magnum P.I. drove a red Ferrari... therefore Magnum P.I. is a Fireman.

You mentioned "self-published" books. There are some good reasons for self-publishing books. A big reason is so that an "Editor" from one of the Publishing houses does not cut out some of your best paragraphs, and then keep your name on the cover... even though the printed volume is not what the author submitted.

Very often in my experience ( worked at 2 different Christian book stores in So. Cal. ) the main Publishing houses are looking for stuff that will sell...

One year I went/was sent to the Christian Book Pubs/sellers convention when it was held at the Anaheim Convention Center. That was an eye-opening event for me. Big display areas for an idiot-dorky talking tomato and cucumber cartoon figures with bunches of retailers-merchants-buyers flocking and gawking, and bunches of visitors at the "jesus-junk"/trinkets tables and so-called "music" tables-video screens - sound booths. BUT, the publishers of solid books without huff-n-fluff drivel were largely ignored. Displays and booths by The T.B.S. / Soli Deo Gloria / Banner of Truth / Hendrickson / Baker / Kirkbride / Emerald were largely ignored.

Agree with you about the A.V./KJV and memory verses. Almost all Bible verses I can remember are in the A.V. It lends itself to memory much better than other versions. Late 80's-early 90's I was a member of a Church of the Nazarene in my city, and sometimes helped in the kids sunday school. Each week there would be a memory verse. If the child could remember the verse next week, they got a small prize. The Nazarene pubs had decided to use the NIV for the lessons. { I was still a very NASB guy at the time.} I noticed that it was very hard for the kids (and me) to recite the NIV verses. The NIV doesn't "sing" - there is a meter and a cadence in the A.V.. ( ... I used to cheat a little bit and help out the boys and girls by feeding them a word or two, so they would not get discouraged. ).

The A.V. is not a literal - exact word-for-word Interlinear Translation . It was done as a translation that the regular folks attending Churches from any village/town/city in Britain could understand. I think they did an excellent job. In Acts 12:4 the "Learned Men" used the word "Easter" because that was a word that average folks living in 1604 Britain would understand, as a specific time of the year. You and I and most people reading this website know it was "Passover" time, but since the average English , man , woman , boy, girl were not jewish... they used the word "Easter". The goal of the Translators and HRH King James was to have a "Standard" Bible for all the people in the realm. Personally - I like and use the term "Resurrection Day". That does not mean I should come up with a "new" version, because I think a couple of words/phrases could be done differently/better.

Regarding 1stTim. 6:10 --- I see nothing wrong with the A.V. rendering of that verse. In the last few years there have been many corporations/banks/stock-brokers/ mortgage and real estate companies, etc. that have borne out the truth of that verse. Love of money and greed have gotten in the way of honest business and investment and banking practices. Huge bonus payments to the guy who sits in the big leather swivel chair, yet lay-off notices to the people who actually do the work at the factory/warehouse/plant. 1Tim.6:10 is correct.

Concerning Modern Versions --- I understand your point of view ( and BrianT's) but I disagree. They cannot all be true. When certain whole chunks of scripture are changed or when they are left questioned by footnotes, or cut out completely from the MVs, then obviously something has been changed, and as my favorite verse says (Is. 40:... God's word stands. Just as the Lord Jesus said in Matthew 5:18... Nobody should cut things out of the scripture. I've read Matthew 18:6 ... and I'm not a very good swimmer.

Sawbones --- If you are saying that you own and have read and sometimes consult other versions at home, well hey, if you are over 21 you can do what you wish. What I don't like is ( as a former elder used to do on adult classes/ and some Lord's Day sermons ) when the speaker/preacher/teacher in the pulpit starts saying that the Bible (usually the A.V.) is wrong in a verse/phrase and it should read thus-and-such... all that does is weaken the faith of the person in the pew. All week long they are bombarded with news reporters and show-biz types, and college professors insulting and calling into question God's Holy Book... the last place that should be inserting doubts in the minds of Christians - is inside the churches/chapels.

I own a copy of Jay Green's "King James 2" version . Own a copy of his Greek-Hebrew-English Interlinear. Have also a copy of the English Hexapla New Testament published/sold by Still Waters Revival Books. It has The Greek N.T. and 5 translations from Wycliffe to the A.V. 1611 in columns side-by-side. Thankfully I have a Strong's concordance with the included Grk-Heb word dictionary in the back. Tremendous resource. Unlike some of the KJO crowd that refuses to even consult Strong's dictionary, I use it and am not afraid of it. Strong did a great job!

{ Yaa know... It is amazing that some people will not use Strong's concordance or a Bible dictionary, but, will without batting an eye , believe every word from Ruckman's pen, and Scofield's notes as if it were scripture...}

----- ---- ----- ----- ----- ------- --------- ------ ----- ----- ------ ------

BrianT ---Hello. I saw your Post, and as I told "Sawbones"... you can do what you want/read what you want/consult what you want. In the Churches/sunday schools/VBSs though we need to NOT turn the building into places of confusion. At the Nazarene church that I mentioned above there was and is a dear Christian lady with a sweet heart and a deep interest in missions --but -- Very often when yours truly was teaching the adult sunday school class, she would raise her hand and say: "The Living Bible says ......." Aarrggh! I wanted to scream sometimes. I was using the NASB because it is a "word-for-word" translation so that I could hopefully eliminate the guesswork out of passages... ( taking Pauls admonition to Timothy to heart) , and she would quote from a paraphrase... which often was at odds with my lesson. Aggravation city!

I liked the wording/phrasing of one that had a bright green paperback cover and was called the "Modern Language Version" - and often called the "New Berkely Version". There was also a Lutheran gent named Beck who did one called "An American Translation." But, it uses the Vaticanus/Tischendorf/Nestle-Aland texts as does most of the MVs.

If the various "New" and "Improved" versions/translations which are trying to update the venerable A.V./K.J.V. --- (which almost everyone of them in the preface page of their versions mention the K.J.V. --- and what a great translation it was ...back in the 1600's...) Then they should use the T.R. to translate from.
Since they are actually updating-rephrasing the R.C. Douay-Rheims version, and using the texts of the Romish versions, then they should say that. I think there is much dishonesty on behalf of the various publishers/translators/marketers.

Whilst working at those 2 stores mentioned above and whilst shopping/browsing at virtually every used book store/thrift shop/Salvation Army store/ Library sales I have driven by over the years--- I've read many chapters and verses of the top-sellers and the not-top sellers. What I do is look first at several key verses to see if:

a.) The verse(s) is/are included.
b.) The verse is not "watered down".
c.) The verse has not been "gender-neutraled".

These are some good verses to check out before anybody gets out their wallet at the bookstore:

Genesis 1:1 -- Is. 7:14 -- Matthew 6: 9-13 -- The Last Chapter of Mark's Gospel...all verses. -- First chapter of John's Gospel, especially 1:1, 1:14 , 1:18 -- Rom.3:25 -- 1 Tim. 3:16 -- 1John 5:7-8.

Do I like the eth and est endings found in the A.V. , such as believest and knoweth...? no, not really... makes it a bit harder (for me) to pronounce verbally. Maybe it is a lazy tongue on my part, and/or growing up in a Television generation (Rawhide, Gunsmoke, Wagon Train) but I would rather have an older translation that has est/eth , than a MV done by translators who use a questionable manuscript found by a guy in Egypt in the 1800's , mixed together with the text used to make the Douay-Rheims, rather than using the huge amount of texts that were used by the Reformers/translators in the 1500's who brought us light out of darkness.

BrianT... opps, got slightly off topic. I understand what you meant about not even replying to certain people (posters) ... Very often I have wanted to answer a couple of know-it-all posters on another site with just inserting that "smilie' of the guy banging his head against a brick wall. It makes me wonder what some folks eat for breakfast that warps their heads... one time ( at the other site) , I quoted from "The Translators to the reader"once to try and get folks to understand that "The Learned Men" relied on the Grk-Heb, and consulted with the other english translations - especially Tyndale and the Geneva. Some of them did not know what that was, and a couple of them wanted to get the tar and feathers ready for me.

Oh well, that's part of the benefits and the bad parts of the world wide web. We can explain and teach and try to be helpful, but some folks are just unpleasant to chit-chat with. It sure gets strange the way people deal with folks that they'll never meet. If people talked in person the way they do here on the internet, I'll betcha that there would be many more bloody noses/black eyes. Some folks talk real tough when they are several time-zones away.

Another thing that I've noticed of late: When people call heretics and borderline nutcases "Brother"...solely because the heretic/partial nutcase is KJV-O... ya know something is wrong!

Hope that all reading this are well this Lord's Day. And all God's children said; Amen! Hopefully.

P.S. This came out longer than I had planned, but while typing this Post, my A.F. son called from Texas and we talked about some things... he like me uses the A.V./K.J. , but doesn't hold to the notes of Scofield. He preached the evening service last Lord's Day.