Phil. 2:5-11 ISV

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jchthys	Phil. 2:5-11 ISV	Lead	[-]
Posts: 13 (05/07/2009 14:48:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Quoting from http://bible-translation.110mb.com/style.htm. Phil. 2.5-11 (ISV) The ISV translators obviously love this ancient hymn of the church and so worded it as an English hymn. The poetic style is dated, including use of the inversions, "existed he" and "did he possess". The ISV team tells me that they chose this older style to reflect the antiquity of this hymn: "The poem's 2000 years old! That's why we deliberately used the inversion technique! ... This was a deliberate choice of the translation team." It makes great sense to me. Well done! I grew up on traditional evangelical hymns and so I enjoy the allusion to the "matchless name of Jesus", from the hymn "That Beautiful Name," in verse 9 of the following: ⁵Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in Christ Jesus: ⁶In God's own form existed he, And shared with God equality, Deemed nothing needed grasping. ⁷Instead, poured out in emptiness, A servant's form did he possess, In human form he chose to be, ⁸And lived in all humility, Death on a cross obeying. ⁹Now lifted up by God to heaven, A name above all others given, This matchless name possessing. ¹⁰And so, when Jesus' name is called, The knees of everyone will fall, Where'er they are residing. ¹¹Then every tongue in one accord, Will say that Jesus Christ is Lord, While God the Father praising.
mko		#1	[-]
Posts: 470 (05/07/2009 17:02:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A form which seems common for such ancient hymns, I know there's several Latin texts rendered in such a way (and translated in such a way) too. Though it's odd...I commend the effort to render a hymn as a hymn, it's a wise call if...slightly "unorthodox" (I do not use this word in its religious sense) "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
Scott McClare		#2	[-]
Posts: 2961 (05/07/2009 22:27:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice. I've dabbled a bit with the ISV, but not Philippians in particular, so I hadn't noticed this before. How closely does it match the form of the Greek? Take care, Scott Gutless and Spineless Person #3 Whiny Crybaby Moderator, Bible Versions Discussion Board -- Scott A. McClare, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada mcclare@ncf.ca * ICQ #24034503 * AIM RansomOttawa Stepping Right Up to the KJV-only Sideshow since 2001
Tatermonkey		#3	[-]
Posts: 210 (05/08/2009 03:27:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	NASB translation 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 2:8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Greek 2:5 τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ, 2:6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ, 2:7 ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου λαβών, ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος, καὶ σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος 2:8 ἐταπείνωσεν ἑαυτὸν γενόμενος ὑπήκοος μέχρι θανάτου, θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ. 2:9 διὸ καὶ ὁ Θεὸς αὐτὸν ὑπερύψωσε καὶ ἐχαρίσατο αὐτῷ ὄνομα τὸ ὑπὲρ πᾶν ὄνομα, 2:10 ἵνα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι ᾿Ιησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ ἐπουρανίων καὶ ἐπιγείων καὶ καταχθονίων, 2:11 καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσηται ὅτι Κύριος ᾿Ιησοῦς Χριστὸς εἰς δόξαν Θεοῦ πατρός. He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent. -Saint Augustine
mko		#4	[-]
Posts: 472 (05/08/2009 03:49:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I threw together this rendering: 5 Then, you should have this feeling in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 "who, being in the form of God, did not deem it theft to be equal to God, 7 but emptied himself out, taking the form of a servant, making himself in exact replica of mankind, and taking the very body of a man. 8 He humbled himself, and was obedient to the death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore also, God has lifted him up to the highest place and gave him a name which is above every name, 10 so that upon the name of Jesus every knee shall bow down in heaven, earth and hell, 11 and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord, in the glory of God the Father." Naturally some of my renderings are longshots, being second-stage translations. Interestingly, the Vulgate, instead of "that Jesus Christ is the Lord, in the glory of God the Father", says "that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father" (which happens to be the exact reading of the Challoner Bible). "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
Euthymius		#5	[-]
Posts: 1783 (05/08/2009 19:43:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Metrical psalms were also composed -- all 150 of them in English meter and rhyme -- for use (I think) in the Church of England. Needless to say, they obviously didn't catch on as a substitute for actual translation (formal or dynamic equivalence), but were useful only to be sung in services. I suspect the same evaluation will be made of the various poetic and rhymed verses within the ISV, cute, but not exactly deserving extended perpetuation. By the way, I also have a fairly recent volume in which all four gospels have been rendered into (usually poor) metrical and rhymed couplets. Don't recall who the composer was, but the book is somewhere on my shelf collection of translations.
77		#6	[-]
Posts: 327 (05/09/2009 03:53:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Euthymius wrote: Metrical psalms were also composed -- all 150 of them in English meter and rhyme -- for use (I think) in the Church of England. Needless to say, they obviously didn't catch on as a substitute for actual translation (formal or dynamic equivalence), but were useful only to be sung in services. I suspect the same evaluation will be made of the various poetic and rhymed verses within the ISV, cute, but not exactly deserving extended perpetuation. By the way, I also have a fairly recent volume in which all four gospels have been rendered into (usually poor) metrical and rhymed couplets. Don't recall who the composer was, but the book is somewhere on my shelf collection of translations. 77: Didn't the NEB employ something like this? "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
mko		#7	[-]
Posts: 475 (05/09/2009 04:21:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know its revision (the REB, which I have) didn't... but the NEB's generally considered to be a little "out there" iirc, where the REB is a bit more conservative. "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
SAWBONES		#8	[-]
Posts: 115 (05/09/2009 06:22:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	77 wrote: Didn't the NEB employ something like this? Yes, and I recall that was one of the most-heralded among its new-for-the-time features when the whole NEB came out circa 1971, but like the entire attempt, it just didn't come off very well, IMHO. It certainly wasn't well received by the general population of Christians, and today, few Bible dilettantes use or even seem to know of the NEB.
kiwiray		#9	[-]
Posts: 65 (05/09/2009 22:12:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I love the NEB and have several editions. "And, behold, I tell you these things that you may learn wisdom; that you may learn that when you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God". (Mosiah ch1.49 - RLDS version)
SAWBONES		#10	[-]
Posts: 120 (05/10/2009 07:39:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No offense to your preferences, kiwiray. I too have several NEB editions, all of them well over three decades old, but it remains true that the version was never accepted by the majority of professing Christians nor by the CoE at the time as a replacement for the AV (or RSV or NASB, which were the only other then-available commitee-produced versions in major use). It does admittedly have some interesting and refreshing renditions of verses which had become so familiar in the AV as to lose their force and freshness for many, and it rendered OT poetry as poetry (a novelty for the time), but was nonetheless regarded by many conservative reviewers of the time as having played far too "fast and loose" with the sacred text, not to mention its frequent use of peculiarly-British idiom. In spite of many interesting features, I generally found it to be an unacceptable replacement for more "literal" versions, but as with multiple other subsequent paraphrastic versions up to and including such examples as the NLT, I occasionally find a new way of perceiving something when reading the NEB, especially in the OT. It must be admitted that the NEB has never achieved anything approaching the wide use or popularity that was originally envisioned for it.

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Phil. 2:5-11 ISV

Phil. 2:5-11 ISV

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