Psalm 8:5 in KJV and NASB

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Armchair Scholar	Psalm 8:5 in KJV and NASB	Lead	[-]
Posts: 743 (12/01/2008 17:56:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None You guys who know about the NASB and the manuscripts used in translating it, could you help me out? Why does the NASB read "a little lower than God" in Psalm 8:5 where the KJV and NKJV read "a little lower than the angels"? The NIV and ESV read "a little lower than the heavenly beings." Is the reason because the word elohim is used, which can be translated as "gods" or "deities"? Thanks!
BrianT		#1	[-]
Posts: 1588 (12/01/2008 18:25:52) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes, that's the reason. The LXX reads "angels", and this is the only place the KJV has "elohim" translated as "angels". Over 2,500 other times, the KJV translated the word as "God" or "god". However, Heb 2:7&9 have "aggelous" (angels). Brian
Tatermonkey		#2	[-]
Posts: 80 (12/02/2008 01:44:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Psalms 8:5 KJV- For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor. NASB- Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! NIV- You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. with footnote- or than God LXX - ἠλάττωσας αὐτὸν βραχύ τι παρ᾿ ἀγγέλους, δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφάνωσας αὐτόν· (aggelous) Hebrew Text - ותחסרהו מעט מאלהים וכבוד והדר תעטרהו׃ H430- Elohiym (Strongs) Only difference between Hebrew manuscripts , from the 6th century on, is the vowels in a few places. But I think there is a different reason the KJV said angels. Bishops - Thou hast made hym somthyng inferiour to angels: thou hast crowned him with glory and worship. Or maybe it was mistaken for beneElohiym which means "Sons of God" with can translate to Angels in some context. האלהים - Elohiym בניהאלהים -BeneElohiym Who knows. Last Edited By: Tatermonkey 12/02/2008 01:57:58. Edited 2 times.
mko		#3	[-]
Posts: 376 (12/02/2008 01:52:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I found a scratch translation I did of Ps.8 in a more or less KJV bent, using an interlinear, and I had "For thou makest him little less than God" "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
Armchair Scholar		#4	[-]
Posts: 749 (12/03/2008 13:24:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks, guys, that answers it for me!
StevenAvery	Psalm 8:5 - For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels	#5	[-]
Posts: 289 (12/04/2008 02:12:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, Psalms 8:4-6 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: The King James Bible translation (of the word "Elohim" that may be translated as God, gods or angels) is supported by a number of factors. The first and simplest is to note the New Testament. Hebrews 2:5-7 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands The emphasis in this thread on the Greek OT (socalled LXX) by Brian is downright silly (and/or ignorant) and typical of anti-pure-KJB confusion. As is Tatermonkey actually trying to conjecture a scribal error (typical). Since the King James Bible translators were well aware of the full history, including the Rabbinics and ancient translations. John Gill "the word is rendered "angels" by the Chaldee paraphrase, the Septuagint interpreters, the Jewish commentators, Aben Ezra, Jarchi, Kimchi, and Ben Melech, and in the Arabic, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions, and above all by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, it is best to interpret it of them: In a situation requiring greater background on the Hebraics it is always wisdom to check John Gill first and he gives the Hebraic understandings in a nutshell, along with many early translations. (e.g. The Syriac is the Peshitta, likely a 2nd-century translation while the Chaldee paraphrase is the Targum). Note the solid commentator agreement as well (Jarchi = Rashi). So we have rather a wide-ranging and strong agreement. You can add the Vulgate (angelis) Wycliffe and Coverdale to Bishops (the only one of these dozen or so references, other than the 'LXX' and a brief Hebrews en passant, mentioned in the thread above). The Vulgate was translated by Jerome with Jewish consultation in 400 A.D. direct from the Hebrew (note, Jerome did have more than one Psalms translation, separately translating the Greek) so it can give a window on early Hebraic understanding. In this case the Latin, Syriac and Greek OT translations all agree, and the Targum as well. Thus you will find Jewish versions translating directly the Masoretic Text agreeing with the King James Bible against many of the modern versions. (You will run into this frequently.) Judaica Press http://www.chabad.org/lib...true/jewish/Chapter-8.htm Yet You have made him slightly less than the angels, and You have crowned him with glory and majesty. Rashi commentary: Yet You have made him slightly less than the angels, etc. Heb. , which is an expression of angels, for You gave power to Joshua to still the sun and to dry up the Jordan, and to Moses to split the waters of the Sea of Reeds and to ascend to the heavens, and to Elijah to resurrect the dead. Soncino Yet thou hast made him but little lower than the angels, And hast crowned him with glory and honour. JPS-1914 Yet Thou hast made him but little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Hopefully it is well understood that these Jewish translations paid little heed to the 'LXX', translating directly from their understanding of the Hebrew Masoretic Text. This has seemed to be a difficult concept for those trying to connect the King James Bible to the 'LXX' over the Hebrew Bible to grasp on these forums (Brian, please pay close attention.) Thus even a number of the modern versions (NetBible, NIV, ESV) avoid "God" coming up with their own translations, albeit inferior to angels. And Alter uses "the gods" while the Message not surprisingly goes more new age throughout the Psalm (ugh) and the literal Rotherdam (Emphasized) is reasonable with "messengers of God". The grammar discussion is interesting As an example: http://lists.ibiblio.org/...ew/2005-March/022842.html [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:6 While the NetBible uses the awkward "heavenly beings" it does say properly in the notes: The psalmist does appear to allude to Gen 1:26-27, where mankind is created in the image of God and his angelic assembly (note "let us make man in our image" in Gen 1:26). John Hinton discusses some aspects of the verse in more depth. http://av1611.com/kjbp/ri...ittle-Lower-Than-God.html Ridiculous KJV Bible Corrections: Psalm 8:5, A Little Lower Than God? Shalom, Steven Avery Last Edited By: StevenAvery 12/04/2008 02:43:57. Edited 5 times.
Tatermonkey		#6	[-]
Posts: 84 (12/04/2008 04:28:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice bait n switch !!!!!
StevenAvery		#7	[-]
Posts: 290 (12/04/2008 06:16:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, Tatermonkey wrote: Nice bait n switch !!!!! Please feel free to explain your strange comment. The King James Bible verse was being strangely attacked, by those in ignorance of the Hebraics and the range-of-meaning of the Hebrew word "elohim". So a proper response is to cogently teach the forum a bit (while learning in the process) the understanding of the word and also, en passant, refute various errors. 1) the 'LXX' being a major influence for the King James Bible translators on the verse 2) the KJB translators were simply "mistaken" in how they read the word, reading a different form. (Tater's humorous theory, was that the real "bait" ?) And rather than acknowledging the corrections we get a low-level comment as above, a good example of forum difficulties. Where the worst posters who offer incompetent reasoning and do not do research well simply make harumph comments upon correction. However, I enjoyed studying the verse some, delving into the meaning (although I did not go into etymology and range-of-meaning that much, it would be a much longer post) and Hebraics and more. Thus the material can be shared, and those with honest hearts can receive. This has already been done on another forum, where there is more sincerity about such issues. And here perhaps Brian will receive the correction about his continued misplaced 'LXX' emphasis (which we saw once again on this thread) gracefully, in contrast to the other poster. As a little add-on, the Greek OT actually translates Elohim as "angels" a few times, however the King James Bible only does so here, where the King James Bible matches the historical Hebraic understanding, which also matches the NT understanding. As John Hinton points out, there are quite a number of verses where the word is properly not translated as "God". There are many interesting discussions about its being used as a singular or plural (apparently indistinct in the Hebrew grammar here, although discussed in the b-hebrew thread) its usage for pagan deities and more. Shalom, Steven Avery Last Edited By: StevenAvery 12/04/2008 06:32:34. Edited 4 times.
Tatermonkey		#8	[-]
Posts: 86 (12/04/2008 09:18:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"As a little add-on, the Greek OT actually translates Elohim as "angels" a few times, however the King James Bible only does so here," Yes, precisely !!!! Elohiym by definition is a form of deity which translates straight to English as "God" in the same way it is used in English. Angels have always been defined as messengers in word use or like I said, Sons of God. They left it because it was in the Bishops Bible. Is it ok for me to disagree with the LXX? But I cant disagree with the KJV eh. As far as "bait n switch" goes, that is the tactic you use to refute claims. You hook them, pull them off the subject in a long winded fashion then set up a counterpoint. And by that time the reader is quite confused. I did end the post with "who knows" meaning its a THEORY!!!!!!!!! If I am wrong , prove it to me, I am humble enough to accept it when I am.
StevenAvery	a little lower than the angels - excellent Hebrew->English	#9	[-]
Posts: 300 (12/06/2008 15:08:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, Psalms 8:4-6 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: Tater did defacto acknowledge that the "mistaken" try had no support -- "who knows". It was the type of nonsensical and false cheap shot that we have come to expect from the anti-pure-KJB crew, done without even basic research. Similar to the "only Bishop's Bible origin" that Tater switches to here, rather than simply well-supported Hebrew-English Bible translation. Tatermonkey wrote: Elohiym by definition is a form of deity which translates straight to English as "God" in the same way it is used in English. Angels have always been defined as messengers in word use or like I said, Sons of God. They left it because it was in the Bishops Bible. You really do not seem to understand the basics of this discussion, still now insisting, even after the posts above, that the Hebrew Elohim must translate as "God" ----otherwise, by Tater-logic, they were only following the Bishop's Bible :-) . Amazing. Tater, here are a few posts that touch on this from b-hebrew. Nobody insists, like you, that Elohim translates of necessity as you claim above. http://lists.ibiblio.org/...003-September/016366.html Peter Kirk Maybe the LXX translator was correct. In the Psalms 'elohim can refer to heavenly beings (plural), "angels" of some sort e.g. 82:1,6, 97:7, 138:1, to pagan gods (plural) (if that is actually different), and to God (singular). And there is a real difficulty in taking this as a reference to God, YHWH, as YHWH 'adonenu is the second person singular subject here. http://lists.ibiblio.org/...003-September/016378.html Rolf Furuli The word )LHYM is a generic count-noun, and its reference must be construed from the context. In addition to Peter's references (and fine discussion) I would like to point out that the writer of Hebrews (2:7) in the NT quoted Psalm 8:6 and applied it to the angels. In some Qumran writings )LHYM refers to the angels as well. http://lists.ibiblio.org/...003-September/016297.html Robert Baker Girdlestone, Synonyms of the Old Testament: Their Bearing on Christian Doctrine,1879. Pages 30, 31-43. "The general Hebrew name for God is elohim ... Sometimes it is used with a definite article, sometimes without. Altogether it occurs 2555 times in the Hebrew Bible. In 2310 of these instances, it is used as the name of the living and true God, but in 245 passages it appears to be adopted in lower senses." - http://lists.ibiblio.org/...003-September/016362.html Trevor Peterson The (Greek OT) translator probably felt that elohim has a wider range of meaning than can be captured in any one Greek word (as is often the case when translating from any language to any other). A judgment had to be made as to the meaning of elohim in this context, and angelous seemed like the best rendering to go with. I suspect that the translator had in mind the sense of superhuman beings here, rather than human messengers. I'm assuming, of course, that elohim was in the Vorlage. Please .. Why not simply acknowledge that the King James Bible translation of elohim in Psalm 8 is excellent and well-supported, and move on from there. Why not basic sound scholarship .. is it too discomfiting simply because the King James Bible is accurate ? Shalom, Steven
Tatermonkey		#10	[-]
Posts: 91 (12/07/2008 03:58:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Avery,Avery,Avery There you go again, it seems all you can you is insult others instead of making a pure counterpoint. As far as my "basic research" goes, I did some. Lets me show you. Elohiym is translated as "God" 2366 times , as gods 216 times but only this once as angels. When one presents a theory, you lay out your evidence and you make a possible hypotheses. The KJV translation of the verse is supported, but translating "God" in the verse has support from pre-modern Bibles also. Why do you have to insult so much? Is it an Onlyite thing? Let me put it to you in plain English. I DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR EXTRA BIBLICAL DOCTRINES ABOUT THE KJV BEING PERFECT. Is that clear enough for you?
SAWBONES		#11	[-]
Posts: 7 (12/07/2008 08:33:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The term for these people is "cranks". Were I a moderator on this site, the endlessly-quarrelsome nature of the KJVO folks here would prompt me to banish them to the KJVO forum. They disobey almost every rule of courtesy in their posts, and do so repeatedly.
AlFin		#12	[-]
Posts: 29 (12/07/2008 16:24:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tatermonkey, I also researched the translation of elohiym as "angels" in this ONE place (actually in my NIV they have "heavenly beings" in Ps 8:4 with a translator's footnote alternate as "than God"). It appeared to me that the translators in all of the versions that did not translate it as "God" were not willing to accept that man was made just below God himself, so they moved us down below angels, those who are servents of God and ministering spirits sent to serve man--odd position the translators gave us: lower than our servants. Allen
Tatermonkey		#13	[-]
Posts: 92 (12/08/2008 01:29:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree
StevenAvery		#14	[-]
Posts: 305 (12/08/2008 10:48:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, AlFin wrote: ...It appeared to me that the translators in all of the versions that did not translate it as "God" were not willing to accept that man was made just below God himself, so they moved us down below angels, those who are servents of God and ministering spirits sent to serve man--odd position the translators gave us: lower than our servants. Allen Allen, does your objection apply to the author of the following text ? Hebrews 2:5-7 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands Clearly those who study Hebrew disagree with the "majority" (oddball) view on this forum that Elohim must mean God, we can leave that aside for now, other than to note that the view seems to be taken only to be contrary to the King James Bible, not out of any insight or wisdom or study. Allen, just explain how your critique above applies to the author of Hebrews, did he similarly refuse to accept your truth of the Psalm verse ? Thanks. Shalom, Steven Avery
Tatermonkey		#15	[-]
Posts: 96 (12/08/2008 12:14:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here is my study. Its a King James Concordance. The passage in question isn't the only time this word is not translated as God. So the majority rule only works for Greek mss then? H430 אלהים 'ĕlôhîym Total KJV Occurrences: 2605 god, 2366 Gen 1 (32), Gen_3:1 (2), Gen_3:3, Gen_3:5, Gen_3:8-9 (3), Gen_3:13-14 (2), Gen_3:21-23 (3), Gen_4:25, Gen_5:1 (2), Gen_5:22, Gen_5:24 (2), Gen_6:2, Gen_6:4, Gen_6:9, Gen_6:11-13 (3), Gen_6:22, Gen_7:9, Gen_7:16, Gen_8:1 (2), Gen_8:15, Gen_9:1, Gen_9:6, Gen_9:8, Gen_9:12, Gen_9:16-17 (2), Gen_9:26-27 (2), Gen_17:3, Gen_17:7-9 (3), Gen_17:15, Gen_17:18-19 (2), Gen_17:22-23 (2), Gen_19:29 (2), Gen_20:3, Gen_20:6, Gen_20:11, Gen_20:13, Gen_20:17 (2), Gen_21:2, Gen_21:4, Gen_21:6, Gen_21:12, Gen_21:17 (3), Gen_21:19-20 (2), Gen_21:22-23 (2), Gen_22:1, Gen_22:3, Gen_22:8-9 (2), Gen_22:12, Gen_24:3 (2), Gen_24:7, Gen_24:12, Gen_24:27, Gen_24:42, Gen_24:48, Gen_25:11, Gen_26:24, Gen_27:20, Gen_27:28, Gen_28:4, Gen_28:12-13 (3), Gen_28:17, Gen_28:20-21 (2), Gen_30:6, Gen_30:17-18 (2), Gen_30:20, Gen_30:22-23 (3), Gen_32:1, Gen_32:9 (2), Gen_32:28, Gen_32:30, Gen_33:5, Gen_33:10-11 (2), Gen_35:1, Gen_35:5, Gen_35:7, Gen_35:9-11 (3), Gen_35:13, Gen_35:15, Gen_39:9, Gen_40:8, Gen_41:16, Gen_41:25, Gen_41:28, Gen_41:32 (2), Gen_41:38-39 (2), Gen_41:51-52 (2), Gen_42:18, Gen_42:28, Gen_43:23 (2), Gen_43:29, Gen_44:16, Gen_45:5, Gen_45:7-9 (3), Gen_46:1-3 (3), Gen_48:9, Gen_48:11, Gen_48:15 (2), Gen_48:20-21 (2), Gen_50:17, Gen_50:19-20 (2), Gen_50:24-25 (2), Exo_1:17, Exo_1:20-21 (2), Exo_2:23-25 (5), Exo_4:5 (4), Exo_4:16, Exo_4:20, Exo_4:27, Exo_5:1, Exo_5:3 (2), Exo_5:8, Exo_6:2, Exo_6:7 (2), Exo_7:1, Exo_7:16, Exo_8:10, Exo_8:19, Exo_8:25-28 (4), Exo_9:1, Exo_9:13, Exo_9:30, Exo_10:3, Exo_10:7-8 (2), Exo_10:16-17 (2), Exo_10:25-26 (2), Exo_14:17-19 (5), Exo_15:2, Exo_15:26, Exo_16:12, Exo_17:9, Exo_18:1, Exo_18:4-5 (2), Exo_18:12 (2), Exo_18:15-16 (2), Exo_18:19 (2), Exo_18:21, Exo_18:23, Exo_19:3, Exo_19:17, Exo_19:19, Exo_20:1-2 (2), Exo_20:5, Exo_20:7, Exo_20:10, Exo_20:12, Exo_20:19-21 (3), Exo_21:13, Exo_22:20, Exo_23:19, Exo_23:25, Exo_24:10-11 (2), Exo_24:13, Exo_29:45-46 (3), Exo_31:3, Exo_31:18, Exo_32:11, Exo_32:16 (2), Exo_32:27, Exo_34:23-24 (2), Exo_34:26, Exo_35:31, Lev_2:13, Lev_4:22, Lev_11:44-45 (2), Lev_18:2, Lev_18:4, Lev_18:21, Lev_18:30, Lev_19:2-4 (3), Lev_19:10, Lev_19:12, Lev_19:14, Lev_19:25, Lev_19:31-32 (2), Lev_19:34, Lev_19:36, Lev_20:7, Lev_20:24, Lev_21:6-8 (5), Lev_21:12 (2), Lev_21:17, Lev_21:21-22 (2), Lev_22:25, Lev_22:33, Lev_23:14, Lev_23:22, Lev_23:28, Lev_23:40, Lev_23:43, Lev_24:15, Lev_24:22, Lev_25:17 (2), Lev_25:36, Lev_25:38 (2), Lev_25:43, Lev_25:55, Lev_26:1, Lev_26:12-13 (2), Lev_26:44-45 (2), Num_6:7, Num_10:9-10 (3), Num_15:40-41 (4), Num_16:9, Num_16:22, Num_21:5, Num_22:9-10 (2), Num_22:12, Num_22:18, Num_22:20, Num_22:38, Num_23:4, Num_23:21, Num_23:27, Num_24:2, Num_25:13, Num_27:16, Deu_1:6, Deu_1:10-11 (2), Deu_1:19-21 (4), Deu_1:25-26 (2), Deu_1:30-32 (3), Deu_1:41, Deu_2:7 (2), Deu_2:29-30 (2), Deu_2:33, Deu_2:36-37 (2), Deu_3:3, Deu_3:18, Deu_3:20-22 (3), Deu_8:2, Deu_8:5-7 (3), Deu_8:10-11 (2), Deu_8:14, Deu_8:18-20 (3), Deu_9:3-7 (5), Deu_9:10, Deu_9:16, Deu_9:23, Deu_10:9, Deu_10:12 (3), Deu_10:14, Deu_10:17 (2), Deu_10:20-22 (3), Deu_11:1-2 (2), Deu_11:12-13 (3), Deu_11:22, Deu_11:25, Deu_11:27-29 (3), Deu_11:31, Deut 12 (20), Deu_13:5 (5), Deu_13:10, Deu_13:12, Deu_13:16, Deu_13:18 (2), Deu_14:1-2 (2), Deu_14:21, Deu_14:23-26 (6), Deu_14:29, Deu_15:4-7 (4), Deu_15:10, Deu_15:14-15 (2), Deu_15:18-21 (4), Deu_17:2 (4), Deu_17:8, Deu_17:12, Deu_17:14-15 (2), Deu_17:19, Deu_18:5, Deu_18:7, Deu_18:9, Deu_18:12-16 (6), Deu_19:1-3 (4), Deu_19:8-10 (3), Deu_19:14, Deu_20:1, Deu_20:4, Deu_20:13-14 (2), Deu_20:16-18 (3), Deu_21:1, Deu_21:5, Deu_21:10, Deu_21:23 (2), Deu_23:5 (4), Deu_23:14, Deu_23:18 (2), Deu_23:20-21 (3), Deu_23:23, Deu_24:4, Deu_24:9, Deu_24:13, Deu_24:18-19 (2), Deu_25:15-16 (2), Deu_25:18-19 (3), Deu_27:3 (3), Deu_27:5-7 (4), Deu_27:9-10 (2), Deu_28:1-2 (3), Deu_28:8-9 (2), Deu_28:13, Deu_28:15, Deu_28:45, Deu_28:47, Deu_28:52-53 (2), Deu_28:58, Deu_28:62, Deu_29:6, Deu_29:10, Deu_29:12-13 (3), Deu_29:15, Deu_29:18, Deu_29:25, Deu_29:29, Deut 30 (15), Deu_31:3, Deu_31:6, Deu_31:11-13 (3), Deu_31:17, Deu_31:26, Deu_32:3, Deu_32:39, Deu_33:1, Deu_33:27, Jos_1:9, Jos_1:11, Jos_1:13, Jos_1:15, Jos_1:17, Jos_2:11 (2), Jos_3:3, Jos_3:9, Jos_4:5, Jos_4:23-24 (3), Jos_7:13, Jos_7:19-20 (2), Jos_8:7, Jos_8:30, Jos_9:9, Jos_9:18-19 (2), Jos_9:23-24 (2), Jos_10:19, Jos_10:40, Jos_10:42, Jos_13:14, Jos_13:33, Jos_14:6, Jos_14:8-9 (2), Jos_14:14, Jos_18:3, Jos_18:6, Jos_22:3-5 (3), Jos_22:16, Jos_22:19, Jos_22:24, Jos_22:29, Jos_22:33-34 (2), Jos_23:3 (2), Jos_23:5 (2), Jos_23:8, Jos_23:10-11 (2), Jos_23:13-16 (6), Jos_24:1-2 (2), Jos_24:17-19 (3), Jos_24:23-24 (2), Jos_24:26-27 (2), Jdg_1:7, Jdg_2:12, Jdg_3:7, Jdg_3:20, Jdg_4:6, Jdg_4:23, Jdg_5:3, Jdg_5:5, Jdg_6:8, Jdg_6:10, Jdg_6:20, Jdg_6:26, Jdg_6:31, Jdg_6:36, Jdg_6:39-40 (2), Jdg_7:14, Jdg_8:3, Jdg_8:33-34 (2), Jdg_9:7, Jdg_9:9, Jdg_9:13, Jdg_9:23, Jdg_9:27, Jdg_9:56-57 (2), Jdg_10:10, Jdg_11:21, Jdg_11:23-24 (3), Jdg_13:5-9 (7), Jdg_13:22, Jdg_15:19, Jdg_16:17, Jdg_16:23-24 (4), Jdg_16:28, Jdg_18:5, Jdg_18:10, Jdg_18:31, Jdg_20:2, Jdg_20:18, Jdg_20:27, Jdg_21:2-3 (2), Rth_1:16 (2), Rth_2:12, 1Sa_1:17, 1Sa_2:2, 1Sa_2:27, 1Sa_2:30, 1Sa_3:3 (2), 1Sa_3:17, 1Sa_4:4, 1Sa_4:7, 1Sa_4:11, 1Sa_4:13, 1Sa_4:17-19 (3), 1Sa_4:21-22 (2), 1Sa_5:1-2 (2), 1Sa_5:7-8 (5), 1Sa_5:10-11 (5), 1Sa_6:3, 1Sa_6:5, 1Sa_6:20, 1Sa_7:8, 1Sa_9:6-10 (5), 1Sa_9:27, 1Sa_10:3, 1Sa_10:5, 1Sa_10:7, 1Sa_10:9-10 (2), 1Sa_10:18-19 (2), 1Sa_10:26, 1Sa_11:6, 1Sa_12:9, 1Sa_12:12, 1Sa_12:14, 1Sa_12:19, 1Sa_13:13, 1Sa_14:18 (2), 1Sa_14:36-37 (2), 1Sa_14:41, 1Sa_14:44-45 (2), 1Sa_15:15, 1Sa_15:21, 1Sa_15:30, 1Sa_16:15-16 (2), 1Sa_16:23, 1Sa_17:26, 1Sa_17:36, 1Sa_17:45-46 (2), 1Sa_18:10, 1Sa_19:20, 1Sa_19:23, 1Sa_20:12, 1Sa_22:3, 1Sa_22:13, 1Sa_22:15, 1Sa_23:7, 1Sa_23:10-11 (2), 1Sa_23:14, 1Sa_23:16, 1Sa_25:22, 1Sa_25:29, 1Sa_25:32, 1Sa_25:34, 1Sa_26:8, 1Sa_28:15, 1Sa_29:9, 1Sa_30:6, 1Sa_30:15, 2Sa_2:27, 2Sa_3:9, 2Sa_3:35, 2Sa_5:10, 2Sa_6:2-4 (3), 2Sa_6:6-7 (3), 2Sa_6:12 (2), 2Sa_7:2, 2Sa_7:22-28 (, 2Sa_9:3, 2Sa_10:12, 2Sa_12:7, 2Sa_12:16, 2Sa_14:11, 2Sa_14:13-14 (2), 2Sa_14:16-17 (3), 2Sa_14:20, 2Sa_15:24-25 (3), 2Sa_15:29, 2Sa_15:32, 2Sa_16:23, 2Sa_18:28, 2Sa_19:13, 2Sa_19:27, 2Sa_21:14, 2Sa_22:3, 2Sa_22:7, 2Sa_22:22, 2Sa_22:30, 2Sa_22:32, 2Sa_22:47, 2Sa_23:1, 2Sa_24:3 (3), 2Sa_24:23-24 (2), 1Ki_1:17, 1Ki_1:30, 1Ki_1:36, 1Ki_1:47-48 (2), 1Ki_2:3, 1Ki_2:23, 1Ki_3:5, 1Ki_3:7, 1Ki_3:11, 1Ki_4:28-29 (2), 1Ki_5:3-5 (3), 1Ki_10:9 (2), 1Ki_10:24, 1Ki_11:4, 1Ki_11:9, 1Ki_11:23, 1Ki_11:31, 1Ki_11:33 (2), 1Ki_12:22, 1 Kin 13 (17), (2), 1Ki_14:7, 1Ki_14:13, 1Ki_15:3-4 (2), 1Ki_15:30, 1Ki_16:13, 1Ki_16:26, 1Ki_16:33, 1Ki_17:1, 1Ki_17:12, 1Ki_17:14, 1Ki_17:18, 1Ki_17:20-21 (2), 1Ki_17:24, 1Ki_18:10, 1Ki_18:21, 1Ki_18:24 (2), 1Ki_18:27, 1Ki_18:36-37 (3), 1Ki_18:39 (2), 1Ki_19:8, 1Ki_19:10, 1Ki_19:14, 1Ki_20:28 (3), 1Ki_21:10, 1Ki_21:13, 1Ki_22:53, 2Ki_1:2-3 (3), 2Ki_1:6 (2), 2Ki_1:9-13 (6), 2Ki_1:16 (2), 2Ki_2:14, 2Ki_4:7, 2Ki_4:9, 2Ki_4:16, 2Ki_4:21-22 (2), 2Ki_4:25 (2), 2Ki_4:27 (2), 2Ki_4:40, 2Ki_4:42, 2Ki_5:7-8 (2), 2Ki_5:11, 2Ki_5:14-15 (3), 2Ki_5:20, 2Ki_6:6, 2Ki_6:9-10 (2), 2Ki_6:15, 2Ki_6:31, 2Ki_7:2, 2Ki_7:17-19 (3), 2Ki_8:2, 2Ki_8:4, 2Ki_8:7-8 (2), 2Ki_8:11, 2Ki_9:6, 2Ki_10:31, 2Ki_13:19, 2Ki_14:25, 2Ki_16:2, 2Ki_17:7, 2Ki_17:9, 2Ki_17:14, 2Ki_17:16, 2Ki_17:19, 2Ki_17:26-27 (3), 2Ki_17:39, 2Ki_18:5, 2Ki_18:12, 2Ki_18:22, 2Ki_19:4 (3), 2Ki_19:10, 2Ki_19:15-16 (3), 2Ki_19:19-20 (3), 2Ki_19:37, 2Ki_20:5, 2Ki_21:12, 2Ki_21:22, 2Ki_22:15, 2Ki_22:18, 2Ki_23:16-17 (2), 2Ki_23:21, 1Ch_4:10 (2), 1Ch_5:20, 1Ch_5:22, 1Ch_5:25-26 (3), 1Ch_6:48-49 (2), 1Ch_9:11, 1Ch_9:13, 1Ch_9:26-27 (2), 1Ch_11:2, 1Ch_11:19, 1Ch_12:17-18 (2), 1Ch_12:22, 1Ch_13:2-3 (2), 1Ch_13:5-8 (4), 1Ch_13:10, 1Ch_13:12 (2), 1Ch_13:14, 1Ch_14:10-11 (2), 1Ch_14:14-16 (4), 1Ch_15:1-2 (3), 1Ch_15:12-15 (4), 1Ch_15:24, 1Ch_15:26, 1Ch_16:1 (2), 1Ch_16:4, 1Ch_16:6, 1Ch_16:14, 1Ch_16:35-36 (2), 1Ch_16:42, 1Ch_17:2-3 (2), 1Ch_17:16-17 (3), 1Ch_17:20-22 (3), 1Ch_17:24-26 (4), 1Ch_19:13, 1Ch_21:7-8 (2), 1Ch_21:15, 1Ch_21:17 (2), 1Ch_21:30, 1Ch_22:1-2 (2), 1Ch_22:6-7 (2), 1Ch_22:11-12 (2), 1Ch_22:18-19 (4), 1Ch_23:14, 1Ch_23:25, 1Ch_23:28, 1Ch_24:5, 1Ch_24:19, 1Ch_25:5-6 (3), 1Ch_26:5, 1Ch_26:20, 1Ch_26:32, 1Ch_28:2-4 (3), 1Ch_28:8-9 (3), 1Ch_28:12, 1Ch_28:20-21 (3), 1Ch_29:1-3 (5), 1Ch_29:7, 1Ch_29:10, 1Ch_29:13, 1Ch_29:16-18 (3), 1Ch_29:20 (2), 2Ch_1:1, 2Ch_1:3-4 (2), 2Ch_1:7-9 (3), 2Ch_1:11, 2Ch_2:4-5 (3), 2Ch_2:12, 2Ch_3:3, 2Ch_4:11, 2Ch_4:19, 2Ch_5:1, 2Ch_5:14, 2Ch_6:4, 2Ch_6:7, 2Ch_6:10, 2Ch_6:14 (2), 2Ch_6:16-19 (4), 2Ch_6:40-42 (4), 2Ch_7:5, 2Ch_7:22, 2Ch_8:14, 2Ch_9:8 (3), 2Ch_9:23, 2Ch_10:15, 2Ch_11:2, 2Ch_11:16 (2), 2Ch_13:5, 2Ch_13:10-12 (4), 2Ch_13:15-16 (2), 2Ch_13:18, 2Ch_14:2, 2Ch_14:4, 2Ch_14:7, 2Ch_14:11 (3), 2Ch_15:1, 2Ch_15:3-4 (2), 2Ch_15:6, 2Ch_15:9, 2Ch_15:12-13 (2), 2Ch_15:18, 2Ch_16:7, 2Ch_18:4-5 (2), 2Ch_18:13, 2Ch_18:31, 2Ch_19:3-4 (2), 2Ch_19:7, 2Ch_20:6-7 (3), 2Ch_20:12, 2Ch_20:19-20 (2), 2Ch_20:29-30 (2), 2Ch_20:33, 2Ch_21:10, 2Ch_21:12, 2Ch_22:7, 2Ch_22:12, 2Ch_23:3, 2Ch_23:9, 2Ch_24:5, 2Ch_24:7, 2Ch_24:9, 2Ch_24:13, 2Ch_24:16, 2Ch_24:18, 2Ch_24:20 (2), 2Ch_24:24, 2Ch_24:27, 2Ch_25:7-9 (5), 2Ch_25:16, 2Ch_25:20, 2Ch_25:24, 2Ch_26:5 (3), 2Ch_26:7, 2Ch_26:16, 2Ch_26:18, 2Ch_27:6, 2Ch_28:5-6 (2), 2Ch_28:9-10 (2), 2Ch_28:24-25 (3), 2Ch_29:5-7 (3), 2Ch_29:10, 2Ch_29:36, 2Ch_30:1, 2Ch_30:5-9 (5), 2Ch_30:12, 2Ch_30:16, 2Ch_30:19 (2), 2Ch_30:22, 2Ch_31:6, 2Ch_31:13-14 (2), 2Ch_31:20-21 (3), 2Ch_32:8, 2Ch_32:11, 2Ch_32:14-17 (5), 2Ch_32:19, 2Ch_32:21, 2Ch_32:29, 2Ch_32:31, 2Ch_33:7 (2), 2Ch_33:12-13 (3), 2Ch_33:16-18 (4), 2Ch_34:3, 2Ch_34:8-9 (2), 2Ch_34:23, 2Ch_34:26-27 (2), 2Ch_34:32-33 (4), 2Ch_35:3, 2Ch_35:8, 2Ch_35:21-22 (3), 2Ch_36:5, 2Ch_36:12-13 (3), 2Ch_36:15-16 (2), 2Ch_36:18-19 (2), 2Ch_36:23 (2), Ezr_1:2-5 (6), Ezr_2:68, Ezr_3:2 (2), Ezr_3:8-9 (2), Ezr_4:1-3 (4), Ezr_6:21-22 (3), Ezr_7:6 (2), Ezr_7:9, Ezr_7:27-28 (2), Ezr_8:17-18 (2), Ezr_8:21-23 (3), Ezr_8:25, Ezr_8:28, Ezr_8:30-31 (2), Ezr_8:33, Ezr_8:35-36 (2), Ezr_9:4-6 (4), Ezr_9:8-10 (5), Ezr_9:13, Ezr_9:15, Ezr_10:1-3 (4), Ezr_10:6, Ezr_10:9, Ezr_10:11, Ezr_10:14, Neh_1:4-5 (2), Neh_2:4, Neh_2:8, Neh_2:12, Neh_2:18, Neh_2:20, Neh_4:4, Neh_4:9, Neh_4:15, Neh_4:20, Neh_5:9, Neh_5:13, Neh_5:15, Neh_5:19, Neh_6:10, Neh_6:12, Neh_6:14, Neh_6:16, Neh_7:2, Neh_8:5-6 (2), Neh_8:8-9 (2), Neh_8:16, Neh_8:18, Neh_9:3-5 (4), Neh_9:7, Neh_9:18, Neh_9:32, Neh_10:28-29 (2), Neh_10:32-34 (4), Neh_10:36-39 (5), Neh_11:11, Neh_11:16, Neh_11:22, Neh_12:24, Neh_12:36, Neh_12:40, Neh_12:43, Neh_12:45-46 (2), Job_1:1, Job_1:5-6 (2), Job_1:8-9 (2), Job_1:16, Job_1:22, Job_2:1, Job_2:3, Job_2:9-10 (2), Job_5:8, Job_20:29, Job_28:23, Job_32:2, Job_34:9, Job_38:7, Psa_3:2, Psa_3:7, Psa_5:1-2 (2), Psa_5:10, Psa_7:1, Psa_7:3, Psa_7:9-11 (3), Psa_9:17, Psa_10:4, Psa_10:13, Psa_13:3, Psa_14:1-2 (2), Psa_18:5-6 (2), Psa_18:21, Psa_18:28-29 (2), Psa_18:31, Psa_18:46, Psa_20:1, Psa_20:5, Psa_20:7, Psa_22:2, Psa_24:5, Psa_25:2, Psa_25:5, Psa_25:22, Psa_27:9, Psa_30:2, Psa_30:12, Psa_31:14, Psa_33:12, Psa_35:23-24 (2), Psa_36:1, Psa_36:7, Psa_37:31, Psa_38:15, Psa_38:21, Psa_40:3, Psa_40:5, Psa_40:8, Psa_40:17, Psa_41:13, Psa_42:1-6 (7), Psa_42:10-11 (3), Psa_43:1-2 (2), Psa_43:4-5 (5), Psa_44:1, Psa_44:4, Psa_44:8, Psa_44:20-21 (2), Psa_45:2, Psa_45:6-7 (3), Psa_46:1, Psa_46:4-5 (3), Psa_46:7, Psa_46:10-11 (2), Psa_47:1, Psa_47:5-9 (7), Psa_48:1, Psa_48:3, Psa_48:8-10 (4), Psa_48:14 (2), Psa_49:7, Psa_49:15, Psa_50:1-3 (3), Psa_50:6-7 (3), Psa_50:14, Psa_50:16, Psa_50:23, Psa_51:1, Psa_51:10, Psa_51:14 (2), Psa_51:17 (2), Psa_52:7-8 (3), Psa_53:1-2 (3), Psa_53:4-6 (4), Psa_54:1-4 (4), Psa_55:1, Psa_55:14, Psa_55:16, Psa_55:19, Psa_55:23, Psa_56:1, Psa_56:4 (2), Psa_56:7, Psa_56:9-13 (5), Psa_57:1-3 (3), Psa_57:5, Psa_57:7, Psa_57:11, Psa_58:6, Psa_58:11, Psa_59:1, Psa_59:5 (2), Psa_59:9-10 (3), Psa_59:13, Psa_59:17 (2), Psa_60:1, Psa_60:6, Psa_60:10 (2), Psa_60:12, Psa_61:1, Psa_61:5, Psa_61:7, Psa_62:1, Psa_62:5, Psa_62:7-8 (3), Psa_62:11 (2), Psa_63:1, Psa_63:11, Psa_64:1, Psa_64:7, Psa_64:9, Psa_65:1, Psa_65:5, Psa_65:9, Psa_66:1, Psa_66:3, Psa_66:5, Psa_66:8, Psa_66:10, Psa_66:16, Psa_66:19-20 (2), Psa_67:1, Psa_67:3, Psa_67:5-7 (4), Psa_69:1, Psa_69:3, Psa_69:5-6 (2), Psa_69:13, Psa_69:29-30 (2), Psa_69:32, Psa_69:35, Psa_70:1, Psa_70:4-5 (2), Psa_71:4, Psa_71:11-12 (3), Psa_71:17-19 (4), Psa_71:22, Psa_72:1, Psa_72:18 (2), Psa_73:1, Psa_73:26, Psa_73:28, Psa_74:1, Psa_74:10, Psa_74:12, Psa_74:22, Psa_75:1, Psa_75:7, Psa_75:9, Psa_76:1, Psa_76:6, Psa_76:9, Psa_76:11, Psa_77:1 (2), Psa_77:3, Psa_77:13 (2), Psa_77:16, Psa_78:7, Psa_78:10, Psa_78:19, Psa_78:22, Psa_78:31, Psa_78:35, Psa_78:56, Psa_78:59, Psa_79:1, Psa_79:9-10 (2), Psa_80:3-4 (2), Psa_80:7, Psa_80:14, Psa_80:19, Psa_81:1 (2), Psa_81:4, Psa_81:10, Psa_82:1, Psa_82:8, Psa_83:1, Psa_83:12-13 (2), Psa_84:3, Psa_84:7-11 (6), Psa_85:4, Psa_86:2, Psa_86:10, Psa_86:12, Psa_86:14, Psa_87:3, Psa_88:1, Psa_89:8, Psa_90:1, Psa_90:17, Psa_91:2, Psa_92:13, Psa_94:7, Psa_94:22-23 (2), Psa_95:7, Psa_98:3, Psa_99:5, Psa_99:8-9 (3), Psa_100:3, Psa_104:1, Psa_104:33, Psa_105:7, Psa_106:47-48 (2), Psa_108:1, Psa_108:5, Psa_108:7, Psa_108:11 (2), Psa_108:13, Psa_109:1, Psa_109:26, Psa_113:5, Psa_115:2-3 (2), Psa_116:5, Psa_118:28, Psa_119:115, Psa_122:9, Psa_136:2 (3), Psa_143:10, Psa_144:9, Psa_144:15, Psa_146:1-2 (2), Psa_146:5, Psa_146:10, Psa_147:1, Psa_147:7, Psa_147:12, Pro_2:5, Pro_2:17, Pro_3:4, Pro_25:2, Pro_30:9, Ecc_1:13, Ecc_2:24, Ecc_2:26, Ecc_3:10-11 (2), Ecc_3:13-15 (4), Ecc_3:17-18 (2), Ecc_5:1-2 (3), Ecc_5:4, Ecc_5:6-7 (2), Ecc_5:18-20 (4), Ecc_6:2 (2), Ecc_7:13-14 (2), Ecc_7:18, Ecc_7:26, Ecc_7:29, Ecc_8:2, Ecc_8:12-13 (2), Ecc_8:15, Ecc_8:17, Ecc_9:1, Ecc_9:7, Ecc_11:5, Ecc_11:9, Ecc_12:7, Ecc_12:13-14 (2), Isa_1:10, Isa_2:3, Isa_7:11, Isa_7:13, Isa_8:19, Isa_8:21, Isa_13:19, Isa_17:6, Isa_21:10 (2), Isa_21:17, Isa_24:15, Isa_25:1, Isa_25:9, Isa_26:13, Isa_28:26, Isa_29:23, Isa_30:18, Isa_35:2, Isa_35:4 (2), Isa_36:7, Isa_37:4 (3), Isa_37:10, Isa_37:16-17 (3), Isa_37:20-21 (2), Isa_37:38, Isa_38:5, Isa_40:1, Isa_40:3, Isa_40:8-9 (2), Isa_40:27-28 (2), Isa_41:10, Isa_41:13, Isa_41:17, Isa_43:3, Isa_44:6, Isa_45:3, Isa_45:5, Isa_45:14-15 (2), Isa_45:18, Isa_45:21, Isa_46:9, Isa_48:1-2 (2), Isa_48:17, Isa_49:4-5 (2), Isa_50:10, Isa_51:15, Isa_51:20, Isa_51:22, Isa_52:7, Isa_52:10, Isa_52:12, Isa_54:4-6 (3), Isa_55:5, Isa_55:7, Isa_57:21, Isa_59:2 (3), Isa_59:13, Isa_60:9, Isa_60:19, Isa_61:2, Isa_61:6, Isa_61:10, Isa_62:3, Isa_62:5, Isa_64:4, Isa_65:16 (2), Isa_66:9, Jer_2:17, Jer_2:19, Jer_3:13, Jer_3:21-23 (3), Jer_3:25 (2), Jer_5:4-5 (2), Jer_5:14, Jer_5:19, Jer_5:24, Jer_7:3, Jer_7:21, Jer_7:23, Jer_7:28, Jer_9:14-15 (2), Jer_10:10 (2), Jer_11:3-4 (2), Jer_13:12, Jer_13:16, Jer_14:22, Jer_15:16, Jer_16:9-10 (2), Jer_19:3, Jer_19:15, Jer_21:4, Jer_22:9, Jer_23:2, Jer_23:23 (2), Jer_23:36 (2), Jer_24:5, Jer_24:7, Jer_25:15, Jer_25:27, Jer_26:13, Jer_26:16, Jer_27:4, Jer_27:21, Jer_28:2, Jer_28:14, Jer_29:4, Jer_29:8, Jer_29:21, Jer_29:25, Jer_30:2, Jer_30:9, Jer_30:22, Jer_31:1, Jer_31:6, Jer_31:18, Jer_31:23, Jer_31:33, Jer_32:14-15 (2), Jer_32:27, Jer_32:36, Jer_32:38, Jer_33:4, Jer_34:2, Jer_34:13, Jer_35:4, Jer_35:13, Jer_35:17-19 (4), Jer_37:3, Jer_37:7, Jer_38:17 (2), Jer_39:16, Jer_40:2, Jer 42 (14), Jer_43:2 (3), Jer_43:10, Jer_44:2, Jer_44:7 (2), Jer_44:11, Jer_44:25, Jer_45:2, Jer_46:25, Jer_48:1, Jer_50:4, Jer_50:18, Jer_50:28, Jer_50:40, Jer_51:5, Jer_51:10, Jer_51:33, Eze_1:1, Eze_8:3-4 (2), Eze_9:3, Eze_11:19-20 (3), Eze_11:22, Eze_11:24, Eze_14:11, Eze_20:5, Eze_20:7, Eze_20:19-20 (2), Eze_28:2 (2), Eze_28:6, Eze_28:9, Eze_28:13-14 (2), Eze_28:16, Eze_28:26, Eze_31:8-9 (3), Eze_34:24, Eze_34:30-31 (2), Eze_36:28, Eze_37:23, Eze_37:27, Eze_39:22, Eze_39:28, Dan_1:2 (6), Dan_1:9, Dan_1:17, Dan_9:3-4 (2), Dan_9:9-11 (3), Dan_9:13-15 (3), Dan_9:17-20 (5), Dan_10:12, Dan_11:32, Dan_11:37, Hos_1:7, Hos_2:23, Hos_3:5, Hos_4:1, Hos_4:6, Hos_4:12, Hos_5:4, Hos_6:6, Hos_7:10, Hos_8:2, Hos_8:6, Hos_9:1, Hos_9:8 (2), Hos_9:17, Hos_11:12, Hos_12:3, Hos_12:5-6 (3), Hos_12:9, Hos_13:4 (2), Hos_13:16, Hos_14:1, Joe_1:13-14 (3), Joe_1:16, Joe_2:13-14 (2), Joe_2:17, Joe_2:23, Joe_2:26-27 (2), Joe_3:17, Amo_2:8, Amo_3:13, Amo_5:11-16 (6), Amo_5:26-27 (2), Amo_6:8, Amo_9:14-15 (3), Jon_1:5-6 (3), Jon_1:9, Jon_2:1, Jon_2:6, Jon_3:5, Jon_3:8-10 (4), Jon_4:6-9 (4), Mic_3:7, Mic_4:2, Mic_4:5 (2), Mic_5:4, Mic_6:6, Mic_6:8, Mic_7:7 (2), Mic_7:10, Mic_7:17, Hab_1:11-12 (2), Hab_3:18, Zep_2:7, Zep_2:9, Zep_3:2, Zep_3:17, Hag_1:12 (2), Zec_6:14-15 (2), Zec_8:8, Zec_8:23, Zec_9:7, Zec_9:16, Zec_10:6, Zec_12:4-5 (2), Zec_13:8-9 (2), Zec_14:5, Mal_3:16-18 (3) gods, 216 Gen_3:5, Gen_31:30, Gen_31:32, Gen_35:2, Gen_35:4, Exo_12:12, Exo_18:11, Exo_20:3, Exo_20:23 (2), Exo_22:28, Exo_23:13, Exo_23:24, Exo_23:32-33 (2), Exo_32:1, Exo_32:4, Exo_32:8, Exo_32:23, Exo_32:31, Exo_34:15-17 (5), Lev_19:4, Num_25:2 (2), Num_33:4, Deu_4:28, Deu_5:7, Deu_6:14 (2), Deu_7:4, Deu_7:16, Deu_7:25, Deu_8:19, Deu_10:17, Deu_11:16, Deu_11:28, Deu_12:2-3 (2), Deu_12:30-31 (4), Deu_13:2, Deu_13:6-7 (2), Deu_13:13, Deu_17:3, Deu_18:20, Deu_20:18, Deu_28:14, Deu_28:36, Deu_28:64, Deu_29:18, Deu_29:26 (2), Deu_30:17, Deu_31:16, Deu_31:18, Deu_31:20, Deu_32:17, Deu_32:37, Jos_22:22 (2), Jos_23:7, Jos_23:16, Jos_24:2, Jos_24:14-16 (4), Jos_24:20, Jos_24:23, Jdg_2:3, Jdg_2:12 (2), Jdg_2:17, Jdg_2:19, Jdg_3:6, Jdg_5:8, Jdg_6:10, Jdg_10:6 (5), Jdg_10:13-14 (2), Jdg_10:16, Jdg_17:5, Jdg_18:24, Rth_1:15, 1Sa_4:8 (2), 1Sa_6:5, 1Sa_7:3, 1Sa_8:8, 1Sa_17:43, 1Sa_26:19, 1Sa_28:13, 2Sa_7:23, 1Ki_9:6, 1Ki_9:9, 1Ki_11:2, 1Ki_11:4, 1Ki_11:8, 1Ki_11:10, 1Ki_12:28, 1Ki_14:9, 1Ki_18:24-25 (2), 1Ki_19:2, 1Ki_20:10, 1Ki_20:23 (2), 2Ki_5:17, 2Ki_17:7, 2Ki_17:29, 2Ki_17:31, 2Ki_17:33, 2Ki_17:35, 2Ki_17:37-38 (2), 2Ki_18:33-35 (4), 2Ki_19:12, 2Ki_19:18 (2), 2Ki_22:17, 1Ch_5:25, 1Ch_10:10, 1Ch_14:12, 1Ch_16:25-26 (2), 2Ch_2:5, 2Ch_7:19, 2Ch_7:22, 2Ch_13:8-9 (2), 2Ch_25:14-15 (3), 2Ch_25:20, 2Ch_28:23 (2), 2Ch_28:25, 2Ch_32:13-14 (2), 2Ch_32:17, 2Ch_32:19, 2Ch_33:15, 2Ch_34:25, Ezr_1:7, Psa_82:1, Psa_82:6, Psa_86:8, Psa_96:3-5 (3), Psa_97:7, Psa_97:9, Psa_135:5, Psa_136:2, Psa_138:1, Isa_21:9, Isa_36:18-20 (4), Isa_37:12, Isa_37:19 (2), Isa_41:23, Isa_42:17, Jer_1:16, Jer_2:11 (2), Jer_2:28 (2), Jer_5:7, Jer_5:19, Jer_7:6, Jer_7:9, Jer_7:18, Jer_11:10, Jer_11:12-13 (2), Jer_16:10-11 (2), Jer_16:13, Jer_16:20 (2), Jer_19:4, Jer_19:13, Jer_22:9, Jer_25:6, Jer_32:29, Jer_35:15, Jer_43:12-13 (2), Jer_44:3, Jer_44:5, Jer_44:8, Jer_44:15, Jer_46:25, Jer_48:35, Dan_11:8, Hos_3:1, Hos_14:3, Nah_1:14, Zep_2:11 god's, 7 Gen_28:22, Gen_32:2 (2), Num_22:22, Deu_1:17, 2Ch_20:15, Neh_10:29 judges, 4 Exo_21:6, Exo_22:8-9 (3) goddess, 2 1Ki_11:5, 1Ki_11:33 great, 2 Gen_30:8, 1Sa_14:15 mighty, 2 Gen_23:6, Exo_9:28 angels, 1 Psa_8:5 exceeding, 1 Jon_3:3 god-ward, 1 Exo_18:19 godly, 1 Mal_2:15 judge, 1 1Sa_2:25 very, 1 1Sa_14:15
AlFin		#16	[-]
Posts: 32 (12/08/2008 17:49:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	StevenAvery wrote: Hi Folks, AlFin wrote: ...It appeared to me that the translators in all of the versions that did not translate it as "God" were not willing to accept that man was made just below God himself, so they moved us down below angels, those who are servents of God and ministering spirits sent to serve man--odd position the translators gave us: lower than our servants. Allen Allen, does your objection apply to the author of the following text ? Hebrews 2:5-7 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands Me: I do not have a particular "objection" to this text, since it I don't know what text the author of Hebrews was using (possibly the LXX?). But when I see a significant difference between a NT quotation and its OT root, I'll usually lean towards the OT version. Clearly those who study Hebrew disagree with the "majority" (oddball) view on this forum that Elohim must mean God, we can leave that aside for now, other than to note that the view seems to be taken only to be contrary to the King James Bible, not out of any insight or wisdom or study. Me: Acutally I don't care what version of the Bible one uses; that's a personal choice. I'm only interested in knowing the truth, and that's why I use more versions than just the NIV. Allen
StevenAvery		#17	[-]
Posts: 320 (12/09/2008 19:03:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, AlFin wrote: StevenAvery wrote: Allen, does your objection apply to the author of the following text ? Hebrews 2:5-7 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands Allen the translators in all of the versions that did not translate it as "God" were not willing to accept that man was made just below God himself .... I do not have a particular "objection" to this text, since it I don't know what text the author of Hebrews was using (possibly the LXX?). Earlier you did have an objection "not willing to accept". Even here your LXX comment is as off-base as the poster who wrote earlier that he thought the KJB translators might have "mistaken" reading the text. Try to understand that many Jewish and scholarly and Christian Hebrew experts agree that "angels" is a fine translation in Psalm 8:5, directly from the Hebrew. I even extracted a few posts from the b-hebrew thread and this is so clear and obvious there is no need to belabor the point. Above Tatermonkey is simply showing you a "majority" fallacy (such a fallacy exists in textual matters as well, such as fighting against Acts 8:37) that anybody with even rudimentary language will read with a and a chuckle. Perhaps Tater actually believes that if a word has a particular meaning 95% or 99% of the time, therefore it must have that meaning 100% of the time. This shows you though some of the deficiencies of a forum like this, that you get to enjoy or suffer such foolishness. Shalom, Steven Avery
Tatermonkey		#18	[-]
Posts: 108 (12/10/2008 04:33:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post
StevenAvery		#19	[-]
Posts: 331 (12/10/2008 21:16:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Folks, After two pages of discussion and lots of references, is anybody other than Tatermonkey actually taking the position that "angels" is not solid translation from the Hebrew ? If not (and I certainly hope not, two cornfusenisks with their head in their palms and in the sand would be a lot) then we can wait for another try (remember the earlier thread) for King James Bible verses not from the Hebrew-Aramaic Masoretic Text. Or another similar type claim. Meanwhile we can agree with the Jewish translators, the b-hebrew writers and any savvy analyst who has studied the word "Elohim". And see that the earlier contentions on this thread, the awkward attempts to say the translators were "mistaken" in how they read the Hebrew or they somehow translated one word or verse from the LXX, were simply misfired anti-pure-KJB agiprops. Shalom, Steven Avery
Tatermonkey		#20	[-]
Posts: 109 (12/11/2008 02:03:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	2366 to 1 . I'll take those odds.

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Psalm 8:5 in KJV and NASB

Psalm 8:5 in KJV and NASB

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