Choosing the right translation

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Hermit	Choosing the right translation	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1 (11/18/2008 09:53:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Greetings! First, please excuse me for my English - it is not my native language and I have never been to an English-speaking country. I guess this is the right place to ask for advice. For quite a long time I have been trying to choose an English translation - to read, to study, and to memorize (but not to use in my Church - just for myself). And I would like to stick to it for good. I have read dozens of articles on the subject but am still in two minds - or, rather, four or five, according to the number of translations to choose from . It should be trusted and respected among Evangelicals (I myself am an ordained Baptist minister), conservative (no liberal NRSV or gender-neutral TNIV for me), accurate (not a paraphrase), but still easy to read and memorize; and it is preferable that the grammar and stile be natural for modern English. Here are those I am trying to choose from: KJV (probably unlikely, with all due respect: I have no problems with "thou" and "thee" or with "-eth", but I do have them with hundreds of words that are not used any more or changed their meaning!), NKJV, NASB, NIV, and ESV. Can anybody help me to make up my mind? Thank you very much in advance. Blessings.
BrianT		#1	[-]
Posts: 1538 (11/18/2008 10:30:17) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Welcome Hermit! All good choices, in my opinion. You've probably already learned that although the NIV is accurate and not a paraphrase, it is closer to the paraphrase end of the spectrum than the other translations you list. NASB was updated substantially in 1995, so if you choose NASB, you still have to consider pre- or post- 1995 (both are good, but I find the pre-1995 more literal). Choosing the NKJV or NASB has the advantage of their widespread use, although the ESV has been gaining popularity over the last several years. For study purposes, the advantage with the NKJV is its close similarity with the KJV, for which most study tools have been developed. For memorization, I don't believe any translation is easier to memorize than any other, but again the NKJV has the advantage that if you quote what you've memorized to others, it will be more similar to the KJV and thus others may be more familiar with it. So I can't really answer your question for you, but if it were me, I would narrow that list down to the NKJV and NASB. What I really recommend is using all of them, including the KJV. A good parallel Bible might be worth the investment as well. Brian
Armchair Scholar		#2	[-]
Posts: 714 (11/18/2008 10:51:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Hermit! I grew up with the KJV but use the NKJV most of the time now, along with the NASB and ESV. I keep them all on my desk but the NKJV is my main reading Bible. When I get down to studying passages in more depth (pretty often) I will look at certain verses in the NASB and ESV and compare them together with my NKJV to get a fuller reading. I also use the Strongest Strong's Concordance and the Hebrew and Greek dictionary at the back. As Brian recommended, a good parallel Bible is a great investment.
Hermit		#3	[-]
Posts: 2 (11/18/2008 11:29:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks a lot! Of course I have a couple of parallel Bibles as well as all the translations I listed - and use all of them now and then. But would like to stick to one for reading and memorizing (there is just one translation in my native language - it's far from being perfect, but at least you don't have that many options ). Not an easy choice, as I see: I didn't say that I got used to the NIV (it was the first English translation that came into my possession many years ago) and have always liked it very much for its smooth language and readability... but I see it is criticized a lot for its looseness. As for the NASB and NKJV, whose English is less or literal and, thus, "wooden"? And what will you say of the ESV? I have just visited the Trinitarian Bible Society site and read a few articles... Well, you know their opinion on the subject .
Tatermonkey		#4	[-]
Posts: 26 (11/18/2008 11:53:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The old pre 1995 NASB is a little wooden in some ways , but that is because it stuck with the original grammar structure too well. The post 95 NASB is still very literal but with updated language use. Mainly getting adjective/noun and subject/verb/object inline with modern english grammar. This mostly applies to the New Testament, as the Greek grammar is close to English but not quite so its still very literal only difference being like in Greek the adjective is after the noun and in English its before the noun. Little things like that. Same applies to the Old Testament in a way but Hebrew is soooo different compared to English there is a little paraphrasing (dynamic translation) involved in about every English translation in quite a few cases. The NASB is my prefered choice. I think the NIV is a little too loose in some ways but it gets the point across. NKJV is pretty good and its close to the KJV but with updated language. I reccomend the NASB study bible or at least one with notes on alternate translations and such.
Hermit		#5	[-]
Posts: 3 (11/18/2008 22:23:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Seems like I will consider switching from my favorite NIV to the NASB 95 - to be on the safe side... Any other opinions?
mko		#6	[-]
Posts: 357 (11/19/2008 02:02:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have two primary translations: the Revised English Bible and the NRSV, both from 1989 "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
amarillo	hammer or screwdriver?	#7	[-]
Posts: 2928 (11/19/2008 13:12:22) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hermit wrote: Seems like I will consider switching from my favorite NIV to the NASB 95 - to be on the safe side... Any other opinions? safe from what, it depends. safe from modern, idiomatic language? go for the NASB or an Interlinear Bible. safe from literalistic glosses? go for the NIV or The Message. see, it's like buying a tool. which one is best? well, it depends on what u're buying it for. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Hermit		#8	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/19/2008 19:41:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	safe from modern, idiomatic language? No, not that! Good modern idiomatic English is a priority, but not at the expence of accuracy (is it ever possible?). What I mean to be on the safe side is that I want to be sure I do not miss anything from God's word.
amarillo		#9	[-]
Posts: 2935 (11/19/2008 22:13:19) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hermit wrote: safe from modern, idiomatic language? No, not that! Good modern idiomatic English is a priority, but not at the expence of accuracy (is it ever possible?). What I mean to be on the safe side is that I want to be sure I do not miss anything from God's word. depends on how accuracy itself is defined: what often happens is if something is literal, it is accurate in terms of correspondence to the Form of the original language. but if there's freedom from form, it is often more accurate in terms of correspondence to the Meaning of the original. that's the trade-off. but which is more important? Hebrew n Greek forms--word order, number of syllables, spelling, etc.? or the meaning, which often entails inverting word order, adding new words or subtracting the same, use of uniquely English idioms, etc.? Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Hermit		#10	[-]
Posts: 5 (11/20/2008 00:15:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Amarillo, of course the meaning of the original is far more important, than the word order etc. - I am a linguist myself and know very well that to produce an adequate translation you just have to change the structure of the sentence, add or subtract words or even paraphrase (but in case of the Bible you have to be very careful with the last, because a single word may be of great theological importance - so there must be a ballance).
amarillo		#11	[-]
Posts: 2936 (11/20/2008 06:04:55) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	> (but in case of the Bible you have to be very careful with the last, because a single word may be of great theological importance - so there must be a ballance). welcome, Hermit. it's good to have a real-life linguist in our midst! yes, of course we have to be very careful with the Scripture, indeed, for it's the Word of God no less. having said that, i don't believe we're bereft of the example of the Scripture itself. what i do see (and i might be way off on this) is that in general, the Scripture's exemplar points to a meaning-based approach, Lk 4's record of Isa 61 being only one case in point. Paul's use of the LXX n possibly his own translation might give further examples, n also the writer of Hebrews. exceptions there are. i'm thinking of Paul's argument of seed vs seeds in Galatians, and that's where he leans towards the form-based approach. a meaning-based one might not "split hairs" between seed and descendants. and the exceptions, in my mind, do prove the Bible's own rule in the case of Bible translation. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Hermit		#12	[-]
Posts: 6 (11/20/2008 06:17:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In fact, I have a degree in Translating/Interpreting (from English into my native language) - this is why I have always been very suspicious of word-for-word translations. Last Edited By: Hermit 11/20/2008 06:19:40. Edited 1 times.
amarillo		#13	[-]
Posts: 2940 (11/20/2008 06:21:59) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	> In fact, I have a degree in Translating/Interpreting - this is why I have always been very suspicious of word-for-word translations. that's super! perhaps u'll have some comment on this, but i've always preferred a principle-based approach that can be consistently applied, to the subjective jingle that goes something like "as literal as possible, as free as necessary." why don't they sing it the other way, "as free as possible, as literal as necessary," if indeed the exception proves the rule? Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
Hermit		#14	[-]
Posts: 7 (11/20/2008 06:36:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, I guess it very much depends on the text under consideration. If it is a piece of fiction or poetry, then a literal translation would be totally unacceptable and even impossible. Consider Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll, for example: you have no choice but paraphrase all the puns and play on words (or even do them over), otherwise a reader will be confused and will not get the message. But if it is a technical manual, then a more literal translation is required. In case of the Bible, yes, I agree that "as free as possible, as literal as necessary" would be the best (at least, not the worst) approach. Last Edited By: Hermit 11/21/2008 22:03:55. Edited 1 times.
mko		#15	[-]
Posts: 359 (11/20/2008 10:30:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I did my gospel translation from the perspective "balance liberal and literal". "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
Hermit		#16	[-]
Posts: 8 (11/22/2008 01:51:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Finally I have decided to do this: just to take my favorite passages (those I enjoy reading over and over again, memorizing, etc.) in four translations and compare all of them. And what struk me most is that nothing reads better and appears natural (for me, of course - who am I to judge what is "natural" and what is not in a language that is not my native?) than... my first translation, that is the NIV. Yes, it would certainly benefit from another revision since some verses do not seem to be translated very accurately, but when it comes to the exact meaning of something I can always refer to the NASB, the Interlinear NT or good commentaries. So I'll stick to what I have always read. Everybody thank you for your help.
jchthys	Good choice	#17	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/20/2009 11:58:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I just switched from KJV to NIV a year ago. The NIV is my favourite after looking at all the others. The NKJV sticks too close to the KJV in my opinion, which is fine if that's what you want, but if you want a real modern English translation, it's not the way to go. The NASB and ESV are also based on the KJV. I find the NIV to be the most poetic and clear-and whenever it is a little freer than literal I usually find that it improves the translation without departing from the meaning.
Tatermonkey		#18	[-]
Posts: 204 (04/21/2009 01:50:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The NASB and ESV are heavily updated revisions to the KJV. There is nothing wrong with that. So much time is spent pointing out errors to the KJVO's that its easy to forget how accurate the KJV can be in many places. All literal translations will read very similar since so much text is in agreement. And quite a few verses only read one way in a literal translation with the exception of some word choices here and there. Just pick out a handful of verses or chapters that you are familiar with and compare them in prospective translations. See which you like best. For me I use chapters: Exodus 3, Ezekial 18 and Matthew 5, John 1 for comparison. Since I am familiar with all four in English, Hebrew and Greek. I can get a feel for how literal or loose the translation is. He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent. -Saint Augustine Last Edited By: Tatermonkey 04/21/2009 03:38:33. Edited 1 times.
jchthys		#19	[-]
Posts: 2 (04/21/2009 07:07:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh, I like the KJV, but the style doesn't quite feel right with me anymore. It's accurate, but it's kind of pointless to use a four-hundred-year-old translation when it's not the most commonly used anymore. I also like to memorize large passages, and a natural translation is (1) easier to understand (2) easier to memorize (3) easier to quote to others with their comprehension. Last Edited By: jchthys 04/21/2009 07:10:34. Edited 1 times.
gconan		#20	[-]
Posts: 891 (04/21/2009 14:35:12) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tatermonkey wrote: The NASB and ESV are heavily updated revisions to the KJV. Would that be fair to say even though they use heavily different Greek Texts? And if fair, yould they not be heavy revisions of Tyndales Bibles?

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