Question: "Did Jesus go to hell between His death and resurrection?"
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Did Jesus go to hell?
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 jimmward |
Did Jesus go to hell? |
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Posts: 7 (03/26/2008 09:56:40) |
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amarillo |
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Posts: 2660 (03/26/2008 11:55:18) Administrator |
no theologian i, but methinks Jesus went to "hell" in the sense of the realm of the dead (i.e. He died, was separated fr His physical existence?) BUT
not in the sense of entering the Lake of Fire. but it's not easy dealing w the passage on preaching to the spirits in tartarus.
i also understand that the original apostles' creed didn't have the phrase "descended into hell"; that came later. was that an invention of the Romish church? nuff babbling!
Joseph Ng
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB |
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jimmward |
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Posts: 10 (03/26/2008 12:35:18) |
I would agree Joseph.
I have a KJVO pastor trying to convince me otherwise. Please, keep babbling. Jim |
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 steelmaker |
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Posts: 1659 (03/28/2008 05:45:50) Registered User |
The prob arises when people confuse hades with hell because the KJV incorrectly calls hades hell. Hell is gehenna, the lake of fire. Remember, hades is to be
cast into the LOF when its purpose is accomplished.
I believe Jesus was in HADES, where he preached to certain of its denizens. |
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Armchair Scholar |
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Posts: 293 (04/11/2008 19:01:52) |
steelmaker wrote:
Yes, Scripture tells us that he preached to the spirits who were in prison, most likely those who died in the OT period, especially all the multitudes that died in the flood. It was as if he came to prove to them that He is God and that He was sent because of sin, yet they had rejected to believe while they were alive. The rich man that Jesus spoke of went there, also. They are all still there, awaiting their second death in the Lake of Fire. |
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Time2Awake |
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Posts: 3 (01/01/2009 21:39:06) |
Yep for 3 days
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Tatermonkey |
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Posts: 150 (01/02/2009 04:47:54) |
So that would mean there was a separate realm of the dead other than Hell?
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Scott McClare |
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Posts: 2911 (01/02/2009 06:47:14) |
My understanding of the Apostles' Creed is that "hell" is best understood as "the grave" or something similar. Remember that the
purpose of the Creed was to affirm Christian truth in light of Gnosticism, which is why it says "God the Father" created heaven and earth, and
affirms that Jesus was a true man. In other words, whereas the Gnostics believed that God would have nothing to do with evil matter, the Christians said that
God the Father was indeed the creator of that matter, and that Jesus became a real man, died a real death and was buried in the ground, and then rose again
from the dead on the third day.
Beyond that, to be honest, I don't think you can take what the Bible says about the afterlife and assemble a coherent theology of the state of the dead prior to their final disposition to heaven or hell.
Take care,
Scott Gutless and Spineless Person #3 Whiny Crybaby Moderator, Bible Versions Discussion Board -- Scott A. McClare, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada mcclare@ncf.ca * ICQ #24034503 * AIM RansomOttawa  Stepping Right Up to the KJV-only Sideshow since 2001 |
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SAWBONES |
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Posts: 25 (01/02/2009 07:46:28) |
Scott McClare said:
"Beyond that, to be honest, I don't think you can take what the Bible says about the afterlife and assemble a coherent theology of the state of the dead prior to their final disposition to heaven or hell. " I agree, but there are certainly some of those of the KJVO and other "cranky" persuasions who seem to believe that they can derive a detailed theological cosmology about almost everything, and they'll be glad to point out proof texts to support their assertions. I'm content to admit that there are many spiritual things that we don't and can't know about in detail now, but which fortunately aren't necessary to genuine Christian faith. And as one who recognizes that he needs far more emphasis on obedience than on exact knowledge, "Thou shalt know hereafter" is good enough for me. |
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AlFin |
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Posts: 57 (01/02/2009 13:14:16) |
I'm convinced that Jesus went to Hades (mistranslated as "hell" in some Bibles) after his death on the cross, partially based on the fact that he
suffered everything we were entitled to as sinners. He paid every debt we owed. After he had spent 3 days there and satisified God's requirements, he
snatched the keys away from Satan that had been give to him by Adam.
The story Jesus told as recorded in Luke 16:19-31 is not, IMHO, a parable. This account shows that Hades has two regions, one for the spirits of the damned and one for the spirits of those who lived a righteous life under the OT. At some point either during his resurrection or afterward (I'm not certain) he led the rightous out of Hades and took them to heaven with him. So only the damned are residing there now. Allen |
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Armchair Scholar |
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Posts: 787 (01/02/2009 14:08:53) |
I've been thinking (and rethinking some of it) quite a bit about this as I have been studying it more in my Bible reading. I went to a private Christian
(Baptist) high school and had the same Bible teacher for two years that taught that Jesus descended into the realm of the dead (unsaved) to preach the gospel
to them; not so they can be saved or given a second chance but so that they won't be able to say they never heard it or that God did not make Himself known
to them before the flood despite their rejection of Him.
I do not believe the Bible is teaching that Jesus went to hell to suffer for our sins in our place as some teach, such as Kenneth Copeland. He had to be somewhere between His death on the cross and His resurrection. I've heard several pastors (IFB and SBC) teach that He descended to preach the gospel to the unsaved who are awaiting hell in Hades and that He then ascended into heaven as a sign of completion before He was sent back into His body so that He could be resurrected. Some of them say that He also took all the saved from the old covenant out of Abraham's bosom and up to heaven now that He had completed man's salvation on the cross. I've heard the telling of the rich man and Lazarus meant as an example of the torment of those who die unsaved and are in Hades awaiting the second death. I've heard different opinions and arguments for this telling being a parable and not being a parable. Certainly, we have to know that Jesus was not teaching that rich people go to hell and poor people go to Abraham's bosom (paradise). That isn't the gospel. If the rich man is a real person then he was definitely in a place of torment beyond our comprehension. There are so many different ideas of what all these passages are saying, can we know for sure which one is the correct one? If not, does God maybe feel we don't need to know right now? I'm curious as I've been thinking a lot about these passages lately.
Last Edited By: Armchair Scholar
01/02/2009 14:11:32.
Edited 1 times.
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mko |
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Posts: 409 (01/03/2009 05:40:42) |
In other Germanic languages a cognate of "hell" means a netherworld realm of the dead, i.e., some form of Hades.
When the Bible was originally translated to English this is no doubt why hades/infernus was translated hell. Unfortunately gehenna was ALSO translated to hell, and hell took on the meaning of Gehenna rather than its original meaning... Apparently this same problem affects Romance languages where infernus-derivatives hold both meanings as well, thus the English borrowing of "inferno" from Italian has taken on the meaning of a tall, BURNING building...because Gehenna is BURNING... but the Latin didn't use Infernus in that sense.
"Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the
minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
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77 |
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Posts: 136 (01/03/2009 09:48:51) |
Scott McClare wrote: "I don't think you can take what the Bible says about the afterlife and assemble a coherent theology of the state of the dead
prior to their final disposition to heaven or hell."
And that's where I am at on the matter. The salient point is that He rose from the dead after three days. Whether He was in Hades, Hell, or Michigan is a moot point. He conquered death. The Apostle's Creed doesn't need to explain further to remain valid.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx
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Euthymius |
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Posts: 1681 (01/03/2009 16:53:28) |
Alfin: I'm convinced that Jesus went to Hades (mistranslated as "hell" in some Bibles) after his death on the cross, partially based on the fact
that he suffered everything we were entitled to as sinners. He paid every debt we owed. After he had spent 3 days there and satisified God's requirements,
he snatched the keys away from Satan that had been give to him by Adam.
While I have no problem with Jesus' spirit being in Hades during the time between death and resurrection, I do have a problem with any concept suggesting that he still had to suffer something and complete something that was not totally completed on the cross. Otherwise, TETELESTAI ("It is finished", perfect tense) has no real meaning. |
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AlFin |
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Posts: 64 (01/03/2009 17:25:22) |
Euthymius wrote:Happy New Year! IMO, just being in Hades was suffering enough. For those 3 days he was separated from the Father, now that would be suffering! What I was getting at is that he went there so we would not have to. Allen |
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Armchair Scholar |
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Posts: 790 (01/03/2009 19:50:22) |
Euthymius wrote: I agree with this. The cross was like an altar upon which the blood of the perfect Lamb was shed to cover sin, and when He said "it is finished" that meant completion. |
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steelmaker |
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Posts: 1967 (01/22/2009 18:48:04) Registered User |
Remember, Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross that "Today(the day then ongoing) you shall be with Me in PARADISE. paradise is not heaven; it's
the area of 'hades' where the souls of the righteous dead are. Remember, not even David has ascended into heaven yet;(Acts 2:34) only JESUS is. But He
was in PARADISE for 3 days & nights after His death, not in His father's home. (John 20:17)
The KJV often mistranslates hades as hell-that's the problem! It sez death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire.(Rev.20:14) How can hell be cast into hell? No, Jesus didn't go to hell-He went to PARADISE, in HADES. |
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Speaking Bull |
Christ was DEAD | ||
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Posts: 3 (01/31/2009 11:27:15) |
Christ went nowhere except to his grave as do all those who die. Satan would never have allowed Christ to not be totally DEAD.
In the holy Land at that time, some were buried while unconscious, in a coma, etc. They had no electrocardigrams, stethescopes, or any modern means of detecting low pulse, low heartbeat, etc. The law required one to have been dead for three days in order to be oficially dead. That is the very reason Christ tarried for so long before going forth to raise Lazarus. Christ had to be really and completely dead for His work on the cross to be valid. Were Christ not completely dead, buried, and resurrected from a bona fide death, then His work on the cross was for naught and we are dead in our sins. |
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Armchair Scholar |
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Posts: 822 (01/31/2009 20:39:55) |
Speaking Bull, but Christ was confirmed dead while still on the cross and by the Roman soldiers. The reason his bones were not broken, as the OT prophecy
foretold, was because he had already died, "giving up the ghost" voluntarily since He is God. The custom was to break the legs of those who were very
near death but not quite dead yet, to hurry things along. The breaking of the legs caused their body to slump downward, making them unable to support their
weight, which caused asphyxiation and quick death. When they got to Christ on the cross they had no need to break His legs because he was confirmed dead. The
soldiers were required to do their jobs well and make sure those on the crosses were dead. After sticking the spear into His side they could also be pretty
sure He was dead--no worry that there were no stethoscopes, etc. in that day. Christ who is God is also spiritual in nature (and God created man in His image
and man has a spirit) and his spirit would still be alive even though His body was dead in the grave, so it would be impossible for Him to just be
"nowhere except [in] his grave." Scripture tells us that He preached to "the spirits in prison" before He was resurrected.
Steelmaker, didn't Paul say that to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord? Is it not possible that Christ's spirit went into heaven and that He took with Him into heaven the saved who were awaiting His completion on the cross? There are several teachings on what happened. I'm trying to reconcile what Scriptures there are to what might be what He actually did. At any rate, I do not believe that Jesus suffered in hell for our sins. There is no Bible verse that proves that. |
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Speaking Bull |
Christ was DEAD!! | ||
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Posts: 10 (02/01/2009 17:28:48) |
Christ did not go to either Paradise with the thief nor to anywhere to preach to "spirits in prison". Christ had to suffer the same death as any
human man. He had to die a complete death and be resurrected from a complete death in order for His work on the cross to be a perfect sacrifice for the sins of
ALL men.
The only spirits in prison anywhere in the whole of the Bible are the fallen angels and demons. 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when
once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
2Pe 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jud
1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved
in everlasting chains under darkness
unto the judgment of the great day.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know
that they shall die: but the dead know
not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psa 146:4 His
breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
his thoughts perish.
Job 14:21 His sons come to honor, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
Joh 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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Tatermonkey |
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Posts: 167 (02/02/2009 01:41:32) |
For some insight also see. Abrahams Bosom
Gospel of Luke Chapter 16 The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw* Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house- 28 for I have five brothers-in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29 "But Abraham said* , 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' " Luke 16:19-31 (NASB) |
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