1872 PMV vs CUV vs KJB

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amarillo	1872 PMV vs CUV vs KJB	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3518 (10/25/2009 14:05:47) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None so, um, what does an "uncorrupted Bible" look like? last week's FEBC weekly celebrated the "Holy Spirit"-led discovery of such a Bible for the Chinese people, which is now available in PDF (albeit with KJBO VPP notes embedded!). the CUV's been the virtually unchallenged "Authorized Version" of the Chinese Bible for more than a century, "proven" in many an Asian revival, and is based on the TR and other textual bases. the older PMV, buried until just recently, is now touted to be the uncorrupted (cos KJB-based!) one. a group of Singaporean KJBOs, known for their VPP position, are now trying to overthrow the standard CUV and replace it with the one that bolsters their distinctives. well, let's see the differences, first of all, between the Chinese Bibles (i.e. the PMV and CUV). can't read Chinese, no problem! the KJBOs can't read English either, and yet they somehow can compare English Bibles using the rule: Things that are different are not the same! if u have a MS Word program, u can simply compare the verses using the Word Count function (under Tools): beginning with the 1st verse, Matthew 1:1, we see: CUV 亞伯拉罕的後裔、大衛的子孫、耶穌基督的家譜. 後裔子孫原文都作兒子下同 (30 words) PMV 亞伯拉罕的後裔、大衛的子孫、耶穌基督的家譜、記在下面 (23 words) so these VPP KJBOs are opting for a version with 7 words deleted from God's Words. or are they throwing out a version with 7 words added? process may be repeated; a la KJBOesque techniques, verse after verse, multiplied ad infinitum, to demonize one Bible against the other. next, turning to some selected verses: Titus 2:13 CUV 2:13 等候所盼望的福、並等候至大的神、和 (或作無和字)我們救主耶穌基督的榮耀顯現。 ... the great God, and (or, omit and) our Saviour Jesus Christ ... PMV 2:13 等候所盼望的福、也等候至大的神、我救主耶穌基督的榮耀顯現。 ... the great God, our Saviour Jesus Christ ... KJB Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; the CUV actually follows the KJB more closely in the text, making two persons of "great God" and "our Saviour," while putting the option to omit "and" in small letters (which i parenthesized). the PMV veers from the KJB, going with the Granville Sharp Rule followed by Modern Versions and equating "great God" with "our Saviour," thereby making a clear testimony to Christ's deity. another verse: 2 Peter 1:1 CUV 1:1 作耶穌基督僕人和使徒的西門彼得、寫信給那因我們的神、和 (有古卷無和字) 救主耶穌基督之義、與我們同得一樣寶貴信心的人. PMV 1:1 耶穌基督的僕人和使徒西門彼得、寫書信給那與我們一同靠我神和救主耶穌基督的義、得有極寶貴的信心的或作得信極寶貴的道理的弟兄、 KJB 2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: same thing happens here, where the CUV gives the option in small letters, except it says "some older texts omit and" rather than just list the option. PMV again sides with the Granville Sharp affirmation of Christ's deity while the KJB does not (or, in KJBO parlance, the KJB deletes the deity of Christ!). hmm, all for now! Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/28/2009 14:38:47. Edited 4 times.
amarillo	Easter or Passover??	#1	[-]
Posts: 3519 (10/25/2009 17:13:08) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Acts 12:4 CUV 12:4 希律拿了彼得收在監裏、交付四班兵丁看守、每班四個人、意思要在逾越節後、把他提出來、當着百姓辦他。 says "Passover" PMV 12:4 希律拿了彼得、就收在監裏、交付十六個兵丁看守、要等到逾越節後提他出來、隨著百姓的意思辦理。 says "Passover" KJB Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. well, on this verse, at least the two Chinese Bibles stay in line with the Greek, reading "Passover" where the KJB departs from it. beyond this, none of the three versions really stick with the Greek in terms of verbal correspondence: 1550 Stephanus: ⁴ον και πιασας εθετο εις φυλακην παραδους τεσσαρσιν τετραδιοις στρατιωτων φυλασσειν αυτον βουλομενος μετα το πασχα αναγαγειν αυτον τω λαω so much for the KJBO VPP bluster. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
amarillo	misogynist?	#2	[-]
Posts: 3520 (10/25/2009 17:25:38) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	John 1:12 So, what about females getting saved? CUV 1:12 凡接待他的、就是信他名的人、他就賜他們權柄、作神的兒女。 says "children" (M/F included) PMV 1:12 凡接待他的、就是信他名的人、他就賜他們權柄、作神的兒女。 says "children" (M/F included) KJB John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Stephanus 1550 ¹²οσοι δε ελαβον αυτον εδωκεν αυτοις εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα αυτου the Greek word τεκνα refers to male/female children, so that all who receive the Son of God cld have the authority (not "power") to become the CHILDREN of God, whether they're male or female. the two Chinese versions loudly agree with each other (somehow, they're identical!!) AND the TR 1550 against the KJB's use of "sons" on this verse. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/25/2009 17:28:01. Edited 1 times.
amarillo	content of the everlasting gospel	#3	[-]
Posts: 3521 (10/25/2009 17:48:37) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	creator, lord, or both? Rev. 14:6-7 lays out the Everlasting Gospel: CUV 14:6 我又看見另有一位天使飛在空中、有永遠的福音要傳給住在地上的人、就是各國各族各方各民. 14:7 他大聲說、應當敬畏神、將榮耀歸給他.因他施行審判的時候已經到了.應當敬拜那創造天地海和衆水泉源的。 PMV 14:6 我又見一位天使、飛在天的當中、他有永遠的福音、要傳給住在地上的人、就是傳給各國各族各方各民、 14:7 就大聲說、你們應當敬畏神、將榮耀歸給他、因為他施行審判的時候到了、應當叩拜創造天地海和衆水泉的主。 says, "the Lord who made ..." KJB Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. TR 1550 ⁶και ειδον αλλον αγγελον πετωμενον εν μεσουρανηματι εχοντα ευαγγελιον αιωνιον ευαγγελισαι τους κατοικουντας επι της γης και παν εθνος και φυλην και γλωσσαν και λαον ⁷λεγοντα εν φωνη μεγαλη φοβηθητε τον θεον και δοτε αυτω δοξαν οτι ηλθεν η ωρα της κρισεως αυτου και προσκυνησατε τω ποιησαντι τον ουρανον και την γην και θαλασσαν και πηγας υδατων interesting for a "parallel Bible" that spends half the day making funny statements against the NIV and ESV n justifying the KJB/TR without evidence, the editors totally missed this verse! shd be one of the most important verses of the entire Bible, one wld think, given its listing of the content of the Everlasting Gospel. anyhow, the PMV here stands against the TR, KJB, and CUV by adding the word for Lord (KYRIOS missing in the Greek). interesting, since the PMV's supposed to have been translated outta the KJB n TR while the CUV's supposed to have been made outta "corrupted texts"! so much for the fluff. and interesting further, too, since this is in the Book of Revelation, where the editor of the "parallel Bible" goes to much pains at Rev. 22:18-19 to point out what happens when stuff is ADDED to God's Word or deleted therefrom! aren't the VPPs a little quiet here? (cricket2) Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/28/2009 18:41:46. Edited 1 times.
amarillo	Christmas is coming	#4	[-]
Posts: 3522 (10/25/2009 18:24:53) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	so we'll leave you with one more: Luke 2:14 so, what, exactly, did the angels proclaim? CUV 2:14 在至高之處榮耀歸與神、在地上平安歸與他所喜悅的人。 (有古卷作喜悅歸與人) says, "on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests," emphasizing divine sovereign grace TR 1550 2:14 在天上有榮光歸神、在地上有平安、人都蒙恩。 says, "good will toward men," suggesting some unexplained indulgence directed generally toward the world at large KJB Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. TR 1550 ¹⁴δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκια CT 1881 ¹⁴δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκιας the editor's notes in the "parallel Bible" grudgingly (if incoherently) complain, Note: "on earth peace, good will toward men" is changed to "on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased", "on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests" in ESV, NASB, NIV and RSV. See correlated verse: - Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: And also Eph 2:14-18. bah humbug to the non sequitur. so much for their usual posturing for Teddy Beza, the "Doctrines of Grace," and the TULIP! Merry Christmas, yawl! Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/26/2009 16:51:57. Edited 1 times.
amarillo	KJB n PMV against the TR!	#5	[-]
Posts: 3528 (10/27/2009 15:45:58) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	for all KJBOs' claims that the KJB n PMV follows the TR, check out Rev. 16:5: CUV 16:5 我聽見掌管衆水的天使說、昔在今在的聖者阿、你這樣判斷是公義的. says, "who is and who was, the Holy One" PMV 16:5 我聽見掌管水的天使說、昔在今在以後永在的聖主、這樣判斷世人、是公義的。 says, "who is, and was, and shall be" KJB Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. TR 1550 ⁵και ηκουσα του αγγελου των υδατων λεγοντος δικαιος κυριε ει ο ων και ο ην και ο οσιος οτι ταυτα εκρινας says, "who is and who was, the Holy One" (οσιος means "Holy One," not "shalt be") so, if the TR says "Holy One," which of these follow that reading: the KJB, PMV, or CUV? see why the KJBOs n VPPers are not to be overly trusted? also, if VPPers side with the KJB against the TR, how different are they from the Ruckies (for all their posturing otherwise)? when it comes down to the crunch, they'll both correct the Greek TR with the English or Mandarin! for further exposure of the fabrication that the KJB is word-for-word the same as the TR, check out this discussion. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/27/2009 16:15:05. Edited 2 times.
amarillo	another KJBO/VPP attack on the TR	#6	[-]
Posts: 3529 (10/27/2009 16:24:13) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	for those apparently so persnickety over every jot n tittle, here's another example of their willful departure from the Greek--in Luke 2:22: CUV 2:22 按摩西律法滿了潔淨的日子、他們帶着孩子上耶路撒冷去、要把他獻與主. says, "... days of purification ..." (either pronoun omitted) PMV 2:22 照摩西的律法、滿了潔淨的日期、他們就帶著嬰孩上耶路撒冷去、要將他獻與主。 says, "... days of purification ..." (either pronoun omitted) KJB Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; TR 1550 ²²και οτε επλησθησαν αι ημεραι του καθαρισμου αυτων κατα τον νομον μωσεως ανηγαγον αυτον εις ιεροσολυμα παραστησαι τω κυριω says, "... days of their purification ..." here, unmistakably, the KJB departs from the inspired Greek n changes "their" to "her," possibly on (misguided) theological grounds. and both Chinese versions depart from both in quietly jettisoning the pronoun! something the usually exuberant "parallel Bible" editor is oh-so-quiet about! probably didn't bet someone at BVDB might notice! so here's the question again, how's correcting the Greek TR with the KJB different from what FEBC somewhere terms "Ruckman's extreme and even heretical position"? as we've seen, given a choice, they'll side with the KJB against the Greek. at least old Ruckie's more candid. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/27/2009 16:40:42. Edited 1 times.
77		#7	[-]
Posts: 966 (10/27/2009 18:13:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Given that Paul, and the other apostles, clearly spoke English; how could a Chinese translation possibly be "the" word?! "Truly, good Christian reader, we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one of a good one ... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one, not justly to be expected against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark."
mko		#8	[-]
Posts: 744 (10/27/2009 18:16:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	And Jacobethan English at that!!! "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
amarillo	they have a term for it!	#9	[-]
Posts: 3530 (10/28/2009 03:05:06) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	it's called the "logic of faith"! the problem, of course, is not whether there's faith but the OBJECT of faith. not in God's Words for sure (although it sure seems so on the surface! ). for their faith is faith in faith itself, minus Scriptures, and then co-opting a coupla irrelevant verses to buttress their fideistic presuppositions of what God has NOT promised (e.g. stuff like Beza veneration, KJBOism, PMV-Onlyism, Wilkinsonism, VPPism, CUV-corruptionism). Peter spoke of that a long time ago, in 2 Peter 3:16, that "the unlearned and unstable ... wrest" the Scriptures "to their own destruction." Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 10/28/2009 03:09:52. Edited 1 times.
Armchair Scholar		#10	[-]
Posts: 1296 (10/28/2009 07:55:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Maybe Jesus read Shakespeare, too?
Armchair Scholar		#11	[-]
Posts: 1297 (10/28/2009 07:57:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	amarillo wrote: it's called the "logic of faith"! the problem, of course, is not whether there's faith but the OBJECT of faith. not in God's Words for sure (although it sure seems so on the surface! ). for their faith is faith in faith itself, minus Scriptures, and then co-opting a coupla irrelevant verses to buttress their fideistic presuppositions of what God has NOT promised (e.g. stuff like Beza veneration, KJBOism, PMV-Onlyism, Wilkinsonism, VPPism, CUV-corruptionism). Peter spoke of that a long time ago, in 2 Peter 3:16, that "the unlearned and unstable ... wrest" the Scriptures "to their own destruction." Amen, Joseph!
amarillo		#12	[-]
Posts: 3557 (11/07/2009 04:03:24) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	so, to a KJBO, what's in a name, a name given under inspiration? Acts 19:34 what were the WORDS (actually, rather than what the Jacobean reader might think in "response") that came out of the Ephesian mob's mouths? CUV 19:34 只因他們認出他是猶太人、就大家同聲喊着說、大哉以弗所人的亞底米阿.如此約有兩小時。 says, "... Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! ..." PMV 19:34 衆人曉得他是猶太人、就同聲喊叫說、大哉以弗所人所敬奉的亞底米阿、如此約有一個時辰 says, "... Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! ..." KJB ³⁴But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. TR 1550 ³⁴επιγνοντων δε οτι ιουδαιος εστιν φωνη εγενετο μια εκ παντων ως επι ωρας δυο κραζοντων μεγαλη η αρτεμις εφεσιων says, "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians" see the difference there? for all their yapping abt "Verbal Preservation," VPPers exalt the version that deviates furthest from the Greek. doesn't that take away from their own VPP claims rather than support them? one wld think ... but o, they say, it's the Holy Spirit's guidance! right, why would the Holy Spirit lead people away from the TR to the KJB? the VPPers also claim that they're Different fr the Pensacolan Ruckies. here the PMV n CUV obviously follow the Greek words, but will the VPPers correct their English dynamic equivalence to follow the Greek? or do we sense the hypocritical double standards of Ruckmanism here (i.e. the English corrects the Greek?). how are they different? Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 11/07/2009 04:22:04. Edited 1 times.
amarillo	more dynamic equivalence n stats	#13	[-]
Posts: 3558 (11/07/2009 04:38:14) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	the double standard continues in: Romans 3:4 where it says: CUV 3:4 斷乎不能.不如說、神是真實的、人都是虛謊的.如經上所記、 says, "May it never be! ..." PMV: 3:4 斷乎不能的、莫若說、凡人是假的、惟有神是真的、如經上說、在你說話的時候、得稱為義、在你被議的時候、可以得勝。 says, "May it never be! ..." KJB Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. TR μη γενοιτο γινεσθω δε ο θεος αληθης πας δε ανθρωπος ψευστης καθως γεγραπται οπως αν δικαιωθης εν τοις λογοις σου και νικησης εν τω κρινεσθαι σε says, "May it never be! ..." now, why wld these professing TR-Only defenders secretly attack the text with the KJB whenever the KJB trumps the TR, adding "God" at will? the Chinese Bibles, both of them, support the TR reading here. perhaps these VPPers are really more like the KJBO-Ruckies than they'd care to admit beneath their sheepskin? but it's a pattern here--the serial addition of "God" where it's not in the text is rampant: it happens Nine more times in Romans, and also in 1 Corinthians 6:15, Galatians 2:17, Galatians 3:21, and Galatians 6:14. besides undermining their denial that they'd like the English to correct the Greek, it also suggests that they'd like to pad their statistics showing how many times other Bibles DENY God by removing the word "God" over and again in the English, no? or yet arguing that the KJB HONOURS God more because of yay many times more occurrences of the word? Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
amarillo	beyond dynamic equivalence ... opposing the very meaning of Hebrews	#14	[-]
Posts: 3559 (11/07/2009 04:53:17) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	it's a central argument in the Book of Hebrews that nobody fits the role of Son, Messiah, and Redeemer like our Lord Jesus Christ. not Moses, not Joshua, not Aaron n his sons, ain't nobody but Christ alone. led by Moses and then Joshua, the Israelites never quite found "rest" in an ultimate way, in the way only Christ cld give them. and that's the argument at: Hebrews 4:8 which reads thus in the various Bibles: CUV 4:8 若是約書亞已叫他們享了安息、後來神就不再題別的日子了。 says, "If Joshua ..." PMV 4:8 若約書亞、果然叫他們得享安息、經上就必不再題別的日子了。 says, "If Joshua ..." KJB Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. TR ει γαρ αυτους ιησους κατεπαυσεν ουκ αν περι αλλης ελαλει μετα ταυτα ημερας says, "If Joshua/Jesus ..." what's easily seen is that the Greek word ιησους cld be translated either way--Joshua or Jesus--depending on the context, who is being talked about. no other version, English or Chinese, mistakes the referenced subject of the conditional clause to be Jesus rather than Joshua; the KJB stands alone here. and the VPPers continue to stand among them. in this case, there's no need to correct the Greek--they just won't correct the English! Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
mko		#15	[-]
Posts: 756 (11/07/2009 05:09:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Interestingly, while Jerome had come up with "Josue" to render the name Joshua, he forgot to fix Hebrews 4.8 to use it! "Nam si eis Jesus requiem praestitisset, numquam de alia loqueretur, posthac, die" "For if Jesus had given them rest, he would not have spoken of another day after that" The Challoner Bible uses "Jesus" here, but mentions in a footnote that it is understood to mean "Joshua". "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
amarillo		#16	[-]
Posts: 3560 (11/07/2009 05:16:38) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	mko wrote: Interestingly, while Jerome had come up with "Josue" to render the name Joshua, he forgot to fix Hebrews 4.8 to use it! "Nam si eis Jesus requiem praestitisset, numquam de alia loqueretur, posthac, die" "For if Jesus had given them rest, he would not have spoken of another day after that" The Challoner Bible uses "Jesus" here, but mentions in a footnote that it is understood to mean "Joshua". hmm, Jerome ... Challoner ... not Catholic Bibles by any chance? Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB
mko		#17	[-]
Posts: 757 (11/07/2009 06:27:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Indeed. Clementine Vulgate, in the former case. (But even Challoner knew who was really being talked about, unlike Gail the Ripper!) "Things don't happen together by coincidence, without the hand of God guiding them. Like, say, your ex-girlfriend hunting you down for a date the minute you give up on love, with an eye on the altar."
SAWBONES		#18	[-]
Posts: 352 (11/07/2009 09:58:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Regarding the supposedly-jot-and-tittle-perfect KJV's printing of "Diana" (from the Roman form of the Greek pantheon of gods) in favor of the Greek "Artemis" (as it stands written, αρτεμις, in every form of the Greek NT including the TR, being the original Greek version of the Romans' goddess Diana) at Acts 19:34, amarillo rhetorically asked: ...right, why would the Holy Spirit lead people away from the TR to the KJB? _______________________________________________________________________________________ Why, doncha know, because the VPP-KJVOers hold that the KJV translators somehow or other first "gathered" the best examples of Hebrew and Greek, Latin and other readings, and then translated them in the "best-possible" way, including the sometime-use of paraphrase (eg., "God forbid!", "cast the same in his teeth", etc.) or "inspired ambiguity" (eg., giving "Jesus" for "Joshua" at Hebrews 4:8 ) or "inspired anachronism" (eg., "Easter" instead of "Passover" at Acts 12:4). As Joseph has shown above, these VPP folks prove themselves inconsistent in holding to their principles when given the choice during the production of their own new (Chinese) translation. Likewise, the KJVOers found attempting to defend such word choices in the KJV usually come up with arguments which distill down to nothing more than "well, at least it's not actually wrong". It's tough trying to defend VPP!
amarillo	garbling their gods n goddesses	#19	[-]
Posts: 3565 (11/08/2009 17:40:42) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	SAWBONES wrote: It's tough trying to defend VPP! yes, indeed. and, if they get their way, they're going after VPT as well ... VPI (Inspiration), VPP (Preservation), VPT (Drumroll ... Translation!). i guess it's hard for some to sleep, with all the evidence mounting against them, even despite a seared conscience. well, 'tain't over for them just yet. there's more evidence of their departures from the WORDS of the TR, as they face the names of certain gods in the NT: Acts 19:35 PMV 19:35 那城裏的書記、安撫了衆人、就說、以弗所人哪、誰不知道以弗所人的城、是看守大亞底米的廟、和從丟斯那裏落下來的像呢。 says: "great goddess Artemis ... image that fell down from Zeus ..." CUV 19:35有一個文官來彈壓衆人說、以弗所人、誰不知道以弗所一城、都敬奉大女神亞底米、和他從丟斯那裏降下來的像呢。 says: "great goddess Artemis ... image that fell down from Zeus ..." KJB Act 19:35 And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter? Note: "worshipper" is changed to "guardian of the temple", "temple keeper" in ESV, NASB, NIV, NKJV and RSV. (<--this note in bold, typical of their many random comments vandalizing the KJB text, came from the VPPers' CUV-PMV-KJB file) TR ³⁵καταστειλας δε ο γραμματευς τον οχλον φησιν ανδρες εφεσιοι τις γαρ εστιν ανθρωπος ος ου γινωσκει την εφεσιων πολιν νεωκορον ουσαν της μεγαλης θεας αρτεμιδος και του διοπετους says: "great goddess Artemis ... that which fell down." very interesting, isn't it to note: them VPPers get all bent out of shape that "'worshipper' is changed to 'guardian of the temple,'" et al., but totally ignore the dynamic equivalency n free interpretation of their idolised version. what's in ONE Word in the "perfectly preserved" TR, διοπετους, is changed into eight English words, including the name of the Roman god Jupiter ("of the image which fell down from Jupiter?"). DA Waite will, i'm sure, be pulling out his old "King James parlance" argument again n tucking his pro-literal and his adding-to-the-book-of-this-prophecy arguments behind his back on this one. the Chinese Bibles, including the "Holy Spirit-guided" PMV, is at odds with both the KJB and the TR on this one, attributing the assumed image to Zeus rather than Jupiter. hmm, what does the VPPers' Falam-Chin Burmese translation do, i wonder. compared to the interpretive freeplay by the KJB n Chinese Bibles, the VPPers' complaint against the translation of νεωκορον/worshipper/guardian of the temple, in bold red, seems a little hypocritical, to say the least. why don't they mention the versions that don't ADD a heathen god's name, Zeus or Jupiter, to the verse? e.g. New American Standard Bible (©1995) After quieting the crowd, the town clerk said, "Men of Ephesus, what man is there after all who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of the image which fell down from heaven? New International Version (NIV) ³⁵The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: "Men of Ephesus, doesn't all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven? New Living Translation (NLT) ³⁵ At last the mayor was able to quiet them down enough to speak. "Citizens of Ephesus," he said. "Everyone knows that Ephesus is the official guardian of the temple of the great Artemis, whose image fell down to us from heaven. The Message (MSG) ^35-37Finally, the town clerk got the mob quieted down and said, "Fellow citizens, is there anyone anywhere who doesn't know that our dear city Ephesus is protector of glorious Artemis and her sacred stone image that fell straight out of heaven? Since this is beyond contradiction, you had better get hold of yourselves. This is conduct unworthy of Artemis. These men you've dragged in here have done nothing to harm either our temple or our goddess. Amplified Bible (AMP) ³⁵And when the town clerk had calmed the crowd down, he said, Men of Ephesus, what man is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of the sacred stone [image of her] that fell from the sky? Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) ³⁵ However, when the city clerk had calmed the crowd down, he said, "Men of Ephesus! What man is there who doesn't know that the city of the Ephesians is the temple guardian of the great ^[a] Artemis, and of the image that fell from heaven? now, why wld the KJB translators add the name of a pagan idol to the TR? was it perhaps because the Romish Douay Rheims Bible, fashionable n completed just before the KJB, agrees with them? Douay-Rheims Bible And when the town clerk had appeased the multitudes, he said: Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great Diana, and of Jupiter's offspring. it's easy to theorise in a self-content, scripture-free vacuum and come up with pious frameworks of preservation. but there's nothing like a tiny bit of Bible homework n a healthy dose of honesty to cure that, as we've seen. hopefully, here's a little bit of church history n Bible homework for them VPP masters of stridency to think about for this new week. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB Last Edited By: amarillo 11/08/2009 17:49:59. Edited 2 times.
amarillo	while we're on the topic of VPPers playing gods ...	#20	[-]
Posts: 3566 (11/08/2009 18:15:38) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	remember how Barnabas n Paul faced the temple mob in Lystra, Asia, on their First Missionary Journey? Acts 14:12 CUV 14:12 於是稱巴拿巴為丟斯、稱保羅為希耳米、因為他說話領首。 says: "... they called Barnabas, Zeus; and Paul, Hermes ..." PMV 14:12 衆人就稱巴拿巴為丟斯、因為保羅說話領頭、就稱他為希耳米、 says: "... they called Barnabas, Zeus ... and Paul, Hermes KJB Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. TR ¹²εκαλουν τε τον μεν βαρναβαν δια τον δε παυλον ερμην επειδη αυτος ην ο ηγουμενος του λογου says: "... they called Barnabas, Zeus; and Paul, Hermes ..." now why, o why, wld the KJB translators opt for Roman names of those pagan gods? what emboldened them to change the WORDS of the TR? again, perhaps the imaginations of the VPPers cld help us out here. here's what the Romish Douay Rheims, which influenced the translators of the 1611 KJB, says: Douay-Rheims Bible And they called Barnabas, Jupiter: but Paul, Mercury; because he was chief speaker. sorry, this may be too much homework for Timmy n his theological faculty buddies for the week! so i'll lay off a bit n go play with my toys. Joseph Ng "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Ps 119:89 KJB

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