BIBLE PROMISES

Discuss views about and interpretations of the Bible, God, and other such topics held by various groups within Christianity.
Rachel Henderson
Registered User
Joined: 10 Dec 2016, 06:02

10 Dec 2016, 06:01 #1

Greetings my fellow Christian brothers and sisters,

I love to speak the truth and I have very serious questions that I think many believers would like to know the answer to. Can you tell me please why does God's word promise so much and yet fulfils so very little to nothing in the lives of many devout Christians, in terms of, for example: long life, health, peace, joy and happiness, etc? Instead, I've seen many atheists who live very healthy, prosperous and happy lives and they obviously don't believe in keeping God's commandments. Doesn't the Bible lose credibility in this way? Isn't this part of the reason why many people don't take God, His commandments or the Bible seriously?

In other words, why do not all devout Christians live long lives and have optimum health as countless scriptures promise, such as: Psalms 84; 90, 91; 103; Pr 10:27, etc?

There are many scriptures about healing: Exodus 15:26 - “…I am the Lord who heals you.”

The scripture in John 10:10: states: "... I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

Doesn't this scripture mean that God desires for us faithful Christians to be in optimum health? Only when someone is healthy can he or she have life to the full. Not when our bodies are incapacitated or debilitated by pain, sickness or disease.

Psalms 103:2-3 - Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.

The verse in Proverbs 4:22 refers to God's word and states: "for they are life to those who find them and health to one’s whole body."

Many other scriptures state that God wants us healed and whole: For example: Isaiah 53:5 - But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Jeremiah 30:17 - “I will give you back your health and heal your wounds,” says the Lord.

1 Peter 2:24 - "He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

Romans 8:11 - And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Romans 8:32 - He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

There are many examples of miracles and healings as recorded in the bible.

Here are just a few scriptural examples: Leper in Galilee (Mt 8:1-4); Paralytic (palsy) at Capernaum (Mt 9:2-8); Man with a withered hand in Galilee possibly Capernaum (Mt 12:10-13); Women with issue of blood (hemorrhaging) healed at Capernaum during first preaching tour through Galilee (Mt 9:20-22); Two blind men at Capernaum (on the northern shore of the Sea of Galilee) (Mt 9:27-31); Two Blind Men Departing Jericho (Mt 20:29-34), Jesus raises a dead girl and heals a sick woman (Mk 5:21-43); and many others as we read in: Mt 4:23-24; Mt 8:5–7, 16-17; Mt 9:6-7; Mt 15:30; Mt 20:34; Mk 3:1-5; Mk 5:25-29; Mk 10:49-52; Lk 4:40; Lk 6:19; Lk 7:12-15; Lk 13:11-13; Jn 5:5-9; Ac 10:38, etc.

Psalm 107:19–20 - “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble, and He saved them from their distress. He sent out His word and healed them, snatching them from the door of death.

Psalm 91:3 - For He will rescue you from every trap and protect you from deadly disease.

3 John 1:2 - Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

Here is another example: Psalm 91: Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” Surely he will save you from the fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked. If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,” and you make the Most High your dwelling, no harm will overtake you, no disaster will come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. You will tread on the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent. “Because he loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call on me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.”

The promise of blessings, including: peace, protection, happiness, healing, long-life and prosperity is not just in the Old Testament (Ex 20:12; Dt 5:16; Ps 34:12-16; Pr 22:9), but reaffirmed in the New Testament (2 Cor 9:10; Eph 6:2-3; 1 Pe 3:9-10).

Innumerable scriptures promise peace, joy, strength, protection, provision and prosperity. Here are just a few:

Ro 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ps 1:1-3 - Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither— whatever they do prospers.

Ps 4:8 - In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, Lord, make me dwell in safety.

Ps 12:5 - “Because the poor are plundered and the needy groan, I will now arise,” says the Lord. “I will protect them from those who malign them.”

Ps 16:11 - You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Ps 29:11 - The Lord gives strength to his people; the Lord blesses his people with peace.

Ps 46:1 - God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble.

Psalm 105:37 - He also brought them out with silver and gold, and there was none feeble among His tribes.

Ps 119:165 - Great peace have those who love your law, and nothing can make them stumble.

Ps 138:7 - Though I walk in the midst of trouble, you preserve my life. You stretch out your hand against the anger of my foes; with your right hand you save me.

Pr 10:22 - The blessing of the Lord makes one rich, and He adds no sorrow with it.

Pr 22:9 - The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.

Is 32:17 - The fruit of that righteousness will be peace; its effect will be quietness and confidence forever.

Is 41:10 - So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Jer 17:8 - They will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit.”

Php 4:7 - And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Php 4:19 - And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

Ro 15:13 - May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 9:8 - And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

2 Cor 9:10 - Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness.

2 Thess 3:3 - But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.

My mother and I both repented, lived holy lives, with clean hands and pure hearts. God was first love and first priority. We prayed for at least 3 hours each and every day, and studied the Bible for at least 1 hour every day. Prayer was the very first thing in the morning. Our faith was very strong. We strove to obey God's commandments, including keeping the Sabbath day holy. We attended Sabbath services. We served God. Preached the true gospel. We both practiced abstinence, self-sacrifice and self-discipline, so we didn't spend money on holidays, restaurants or other pleasures. We were truly faithful disciples of Christ, by striving to live according to His word. Out of the little that we had, we donated money to charities and helped homeless people. We were never ever involved in occultism. My mother was totally faithful to my father in marriage, although he was very abusive towards her. Although, she forgave him many times, the abuse didn't stop. On the contrary, the more she forgave, the worse the abuse became. It reached a point where she had no choice but to divorce him. From then on, my mother never remarried. She lived the life of a widow for twenty years. We lived a very modest and quiet life. We practiced celibacy and sexual abstinence. Our lives resembled those of nuns. My mother was very protective of me and she taught me to pray since I was two years of age. While parents usually read fairy tale stories to their children, I slept with the Bible under my pillow, which I took with me to the private school that my mother enrolled me in, and I learned about God. We put so much faith and trust in God and I feel like He has really let us down.

The verses in Psalm 103:1-5 state: "Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all his benefits—who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s. The Lord works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed."

My mother suffered from colorectal cancer which spread to her liver and kidneys, heart failure, pulmonary edema and anaemia, including numerous other medical issues. I was completely shocked, devastated and heartbroken when my mother passed away at an early age, and I read her long medical report, which went on and on. She was in terrible pain and had near fatal falls on a few occasions. Despite praying to God continuously, from early morning until late at night, with fasting and begging for my mother to be healed, my prayers returned unanswered. The more I prayed and fasted, the worse her health became. It deteriorated so much that she was bed-ridden for one year and couldn't see the light of day. None of these illnesses run on my mother's side of the family. We both took care of our health by drinking fruit and vegetable juices, exercising and more importantly, absolutely NO smoking, drugs or alcohol. While other people were celebrating Mother's Day with gifts like cakes, chocolates and flowers, as well as dining with their mothers at restaurants or taking them on luxury cruises, my mother was in the morgue awaiting cremation.

God's people are plagued by an entire series of extremely serious illnesses—including a number of leading people directly involved in the work. During the 1980's there was a huge number of ministers wives that were stricken. It has always been a fact that wives of so many ministers and church leaders have been stricken by cancer.

In 2016, Cornerstone Contact Centre pastor Don Cameron died at the age of 45 years, after a battle with cancer.

Jeffery Largent, pastor of Culver flock passed away in 2016, at the age of 59 years, after his second battle with cancer.

Church of the Highlands Greystone Campus Pastor Keith Lindsey passed away in 2016 after a lengthy battle with cancer.

Kara Tippetts, wife of PCA church pastor Jason Tippetts of Westside Church, in Colorado Springs, Colorado, is a devout Christian mother of four, who had stage-four breast cancer and passed away at the age of 38, in 2015, after a long battle.

In 2014, Steve Hill, the evangelist of the Brownsville Revival, passed away at his Alabama home Sunday after fighting a long battle with cancer. He was 60 years old.

LaKisha died in 2014, at the age of 40 after an 18-month battle with breast cancer. She was the wife of Pastor Breonus Mitchell of Greater Grace Temple Community Church.

A Wesleyan pastor, Daniel “Danny” Eiler, age 30, passed away in 2014, after battling leukemia. He served as senior pastor of The Springs Community Church in Ringgold, Georgia.

David Landrith, senior pastor of Long Hollow Baptist Church in Hendersonville, died at age 51.

Landrith was diagnosed with an extremely rare and aggressive form of cancer known as colorectal melanoma in 2013.

In 2009, founder and pastor of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billy Joe Daugherty's battle with cancer took a turn for the worse as he fought an infection at Houston's M.D. Anderson Hospital. He passed away at the age of 57 years.

The list goes on and on ...

My mother's faith was very strong right to the very end when she passed away, and I wish to point out the fact that I even called for the elders of the church to anoint my mother with olive oil, as the following scripture states in: James 5:14-15 - Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

The scripture obviously wasn't fulfilled in my mother's life who was a faithful Christian, and the lives of many other faithful Christians.
As stated previously, God's promises are not just found in the Old Testament, but reaffirmed in the New Testament, as we read in James 5:14-15 as well as many other scriptural references that I've already quoted previously.

At the beginning of the chapter in 1 Cor 12, we read that Paul is addressing brothers and sisters. "Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed." Verse 7-10 mentions: "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

One of the important ministries of the Holy Spirit to believers today, is His bestowal of spiritual gifts on Christians at the time of their conversion.

Ephesians 2:10 mentions: "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

The only way we can do good works is if our bodies are not incapacitated or debilitated by pain, sickness or disease.
If gifts of healing and miracles are operating in the lives of Christians in these churches, then there would be NO sicknesses, suicides, and crimes such as murder happening there. Suicide is happening at an alarming rate in the Churches of God with so many pastors committing suicide.

Living Church of God - Joplin, Missouri pastor Karl Beyersdorfer killed himself on 5/27/2016.

Others who committed suicide in the Worldwide Church of God are mentioned in the below article: hwarmstrong.com/suicide-statistics.htm.

The following verses refer to believers in Christ Jesus: Mark 16:17-18 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

The following link displays an article on miracle workers who couldn't heal themselves: bible.ca/tongues-miracles-fake-pentecostal.htm.

The list goes on and on ...

The verse in Exodus 20:12 states: “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

It is reaffirmed in the New Testament in: Ephesians 6:2-3 - “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise—“so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”

During my lifetime, I've seen mothers who honoured their parents and yet lived short lives, like my mother who honored both her parents and grandparents. On the other hand, mothers who dishonoured their parents and yet lived to ripe old ages of over 80 years of age. There are even criminals, such as serial killers, rapists and paedophiles who live long lives on the earth. While at the same time, a shocking number of innocent people are sentenced to death. One of the ways in which we honor our parents is by having a clean criminal record.

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, "tells you that a surprising number of innocent people are sentenced to death," Samuel R. Gross, the lead author, said in an interview with Newsweek. "It tells you that a lot of them haven't been exonerated. Some of them no doubt have been executed."
The headline on newsweek.com is "One in 25 sentenced to death in the U.S. is innocent, study claims." Do all these convicted criminals deserve to live and my mother who was a godly, holy, righteous mother deserve to die, along with all these other devout Christians? Charles Manson, the convicted American serial killer is still alive today at the age of 82 years. Charles Albright, known as the eyeball killer, is 83 years. The nurse Jane Toppan, a serial killer, lived to be 81 years of age. Edward Theodore Gein was an American murderer and body snatcher. He died at the age of 78 years. Ian Brady, the child killer is 78 years. Robert Hansen, the serial killer died at the age of 75 years. Dennis Rader is 71 years of age. Phillip Jablonski, another serial killer is 70 years of age, and the list goes on and on.

Incarcerated criminals enjoy the fresh air and sunshine with fitness and recreational activities, including sports, gym, pool tables and so forth.
These prisons are more like holiday resorts. Charles Manson, the ringleader of the killer cult still remains unrepentant even at the ripe old age of 82 years, just like many other criminals. I'm puzzled as to why God allowed all these criminals to live long lives. Was He waiting for them to turn to Him and repent?
But God has foreknowledge. We find instead, that they committed more and more crimes, while growing old without any sign of remorse?

Psalm 91:16 states: "With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.”

This verse is supposed to be referring to devout believers. Instead, we see that the criminals are the ones who are living long lives. Why would God want to satisfy scum of the earth with long lives? If God made us for a reason and that is to begin a relationship with, serve and obey Him, then why doesn't He grant long lives to those devout Christians who do good deeds. It is God who decides when we are born and how long we live according to:

Psalm 139:16: "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

God is the one who planned the days of our lives in advance, choosing the exact time of our birth and death. This goes for criminals too, as well as many famous atheists who have lived to ripe old ages including: Diana Athill (99), Katharine Hepburn (96), Baba Amte (94), Uri Avnery (93), Julius Axelrod (92), Marlene Dietrich (91), Kai Nielsen (90), Henry Burstow (90), Jorge Amado (89), Eric Ambler (89), Tom Lehrer (88), James Randi (88), Paul Kurtz (87), Edward O. Wilson (87), Larry Adler (87), Mary Adams (86), Jemima Blackburn (86), Michael Martin (84), Philip Roth (83), Steven Weinberg (83), Victor Stenger (81), Robert Altman (81), Woody Allen (81), and many others.

The verse in Isaiah 30:18 states that the Lord is a God of justice. "Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!"

Where is the justice? I'm absolutely appalled and disgusted by the injustice not only in the Christian community, but in the world today. I believe these injustices promote and encourage evil all the more.

Many devout believers have been martyred who were very faithful to God, like Stephen and all of the twelve apostles who died as martyrs during the first century, with the exception of John, the writer of the Gospel with his name and the Book of Revelation who died a natural death, at 94 years of age, close to the year 100 A.D.

A report issued by a Christian organization fighting religious persecution states that a Christian is killed for his or her faith every five minutes across the world. It has escalated dramatically over the centuries, with more Christian martyrs in the 20th and 21st centuries than in the preceding 19 centuries — going back to Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry. The situation is only getting worse.

Over 75% of Christians persecuted in North Korea who are subjected to torture, imprisonment and all sorts of punishment do not survive to tell their stories.

Currently, more than 200 million Christians around the world are threatened because of their faith. Is God pleased with martyrdom? Does it give Him satisfaction to see many Christians martyred for their faith. Does God consider it a sacrifice that brings glory and honour to Him, thereby pleasing and acceptable? Thank you.

Thank you,

God bless you,
Rachel Henderson
Last edited by Rachel Henderson on 10 Dec 2016, 07:02, edited 1 time in total.
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amarillo
Registered User
Joined: 03 Jul 1999, 00:56

10 Dec 2016, 14:38 #2

Thanks for the great post!
I do think you've answered your question to some extent with:
Currently, more than 200 million Christians around the world are threatened because of their faith. Is God pleased with martyrdom? Does it give Him satisfaction to see many Christians martyred for their faith. Does God consider it a sacrifice that brings glory and honour to Him, thereby pleasing and acceptable?
That's where the unquoted verses lie, those that don't rake in so much money for the Charismatic televangelists of this world.
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB
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ryld
Registered User
Joined: 21 Oct 2012, 16:14

10 Dec 2016, 14:42 #3

We don't get to define what "old age" is. Christ's Life is Eternal, that is why there is something called the "Resurrection". Even Methuselah cannot be said to have died in "old age" since there is no death in Eternal Life. Compared to that, he died young. Despite death and suffering in this creation, those things will never part the ones in Eternal Life in Christ. We cannot earn that Eternal Life by our good deeds and sacrifices. Those in Christ do good deeds BECAUSE of that Life and not FOR that Life, knowing that God has determined their length of stay here in this creation. Feeling cheated of life after one feels one has earned it actually denies Christ and His Gospel. If anyone could earn such, then Christ died for nought. Such is truly the sign of VAIN RELIGION. Furthermore, the signs of the early Congregation of God were signs of the Apostles in their generation. They are long since gone, having fulfilled their role in laying the Foundation of Christ's Temple and in having brought the Gospel to the whole world when they were sent among the Gentiles to bring such into this Life also. Successive generations have enjoyed the continued affect of their Apostleship which still guides them in the Way of Christ. The Apostles are yet enjoying that Eternal Life among the Heavenly Sanhedrin, even after having suffered horribly to deliver Christ's Gospel.
Last edited by ryld on 10 Dec 2016, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.
Come to Christ not as a buyer or as a merchant, but as a beggar.

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ryld
Registered User
Joined: 21 Oct 2012, 16:14

10 Dec 2016, 14:47 #4

amarillo wrote:
Thanks for the great post!
I do think you've answered your question to some extent with:
Currently, more than 200 million Christians around the world are threatened because of their faith. Is God pleased with martyrdom? Does it give Him satisfaction to see many Christians martyred for their faith. Does God consider it a sacrifice that brings glory and honour to Him, thereby pleasing and acceptable?
That's where the unquoted verses lie, those that don't rake in so much money for the Charismatic televangelists of this world.


Exactly!
Come to Christ not as a buyer or as a merchant, but as a beggar.

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Barry Ruckilow.e
Registered User
Joined: 21 Mar 2000, 13:44

13 Dec 2016, 15:54 #5

Rachel,From the length, and the amount of information you placed in your post, it appears that you are sincerely seeking answers. As anywhere on the "interweb", trolls can sneak around acting as seekers, and I am making the assumption that this is NOT the case here.
Firstly, my condolences on your personal losses, I too lost my mother to cancer, as well as my dad. What comforts me, and assures me that she is no longer suffering, is that I can still hear her words when one day we were discussing eternal things, "I KNOW that Jesus is MY Savior". He is the cure for everything, and the answer to all of our problems.
Without attempting to go through each and every point, article, or scripture that you provided, I would like to take the time to at least make a couple of observations, and then a couple of recommendations. Please forgive me if I am clumsy in doing so, I do not know your background, but the tone of your post seems to be asking for such a reply. This is my humble attempt.
First, you seem to emphasize "devout Christian" as opposed to one who is born again, a child of God. There are many, very, very, sincere people in the world that are trying to make themselves Christians by following creeds, observing Sabbaths, keeping commandments, prayer, denying of self, church attendance, etc.. Many of the roads to hell are paved with sincerity. This is especially sad when one considers that eternal life, the REAL cure for what ails mankind, is a simple, free, gift. This gift is already paid for, by the only One who had the ability to pay it. No amount of further piety, or devoutness on your part makes you any more deserving of salvation than anyone else. You need not "clean up" your life in order to be saved. (Rom 5:8  ) You simply accept what He did FOR YOU by faith. (Rom 1:17, 3:22, 3:28, 5:1, Gal 3:24, 3:26, Eph 2:8  )
As for the scriptures you provided, each and every one are true (except where some modern versions have corrupted them, for example: John 10:10) and God keeps all of His promises. The problem is that the scriptures must be rightly divided (2 Tim 2:15), and each verse has three applications: Doctrinal, Historical, and spiritual.
For instance, yes, the Lord and His Apostles did in fact perform miraculous healing, even the raising of the dead. These were performed at that time (1 Cor 1:22) to show God's power (2 Cor 12:12) through the apostles. This is a historical fact, but does not necessarily teach that it is a doctrinal teaching for you today. It sounds as though you have been taught that Apostolic succession should be still providing these miracles today. I believe that if you will read your own articles and accounts, that you will see that this is factually, not so, and that these apostolic gifts had their time.
The other thing I note is the apparent confusion of the earthly, physical, present time, with conditions in eternity. Once you are IN CHRIST, you (and your mom as well) have, present tense, as a present possession, eternal life. If she was in fact IN CHRIST, she is not dead, only absent from you, and her body (2 Cor 5:6-8  ). Her cancer is cured, as my mom's is. As my dad's is as well, and if I get cancer one day, it may make me leave here early, but it cannot kill me. That battle was won at Calvary. (1 Cor 15:55). My checkbook here on earth may be in the negatives but I am a joint-heir with Christ (Rom 8:17), yet while here in this mortal flesh, I can count on it for nothing (1 Pet 1:24, Is 40:6).
Although piety & devoutness are good things that all of His children are called to, they do not merit you any favor as far as salvation goes. If you are trusting your own works or actions to either obtain, or to  retain, your salvation, then you are in fact trusting in self, and not Him. (Eph 2:8-9) I sincerely hope that you are not counting on such, and if so, simply stop, and count on nothing but faith in the vicarious atonement provided for by Jesus Christ. He said it: "It is finished" and the answer is so simple people all over the world are stumbling over it. (John 3:36).  The gospel, the good news, as presented by the Apostle to the Gentiles (us) is simply what Christ has already done for us, according to the Scriptures. (1 Cor 15:1-4). Just receive the gift!
Yes, some wicked prosper, Psalm 73 describes the situation well, as well as their end. If you are His, by Faith plus nothing, then your end is sure.
My recommendations would be the same for you as for anyone whom I may have had the honor of presenting the gospel to:
Find a Bible Believing (KJV)  church, where the word of God is preached and believed,
and be there every time the doors are open.
Don't be afraid to expose yourself to some teachings that may be different from what you know now, these may answer many of the questions that you apparently have, but don't accept just any old thing as the truth, God gave you His word to use as a guide in such matters, as these. Search them, John 5:39, Acts 17:11.
I have, and will continue to pray that this helps you. If you are wondering what kind of "weird sect" I may come from, it's simple, I am a Bible Believing Baptist if you need a label, and you can read more about that here: http://onychabaptistchurch.com/meetpastor.html
God bless,
Mark
Last edited by Barry Ruckilow.e on 13 Dec 2016, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
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amarillo
Registered User
Joined: 03 Jul 1999, 00:56

16 Dec 2016, 22:39 #6

"As for the scriptures you provided, each and every one are true (except where some modern versions have corrupted them, for example: John 10:10) and God keeps all of His promises. The problem is that the scriptures must be rightly divided (2 Tim 2:15), and each verse has three applications: Doctrinal, Historical, and spiritual."
And that's the big difference. One animal says, "Yea hath God said."
"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
Ps 119:89 KJB
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Barry Ruckilow.e
Registered User
Joined: 21 Mar 2000, 13:44

19 Dec 2016, 15:15 #7

amarillo wrote:
"As for the scriptures you provided, each and every one are true (except where some modern versions have corrupted them, for example: John 10:10) and God keeps all of His promises. The problem is that the scriptures must be rightly divided (2 Tim 2:15), and each verse has three applications: Doctrinal, Historical, and spiritual."
And that's the big difference. One animal says, "Yea hath God said."



No Joseph, you have it backwards again. The example I gave, Jn 10:10, "to the full" is not the same as "more abundantly". Please go search through your "plethora" of  pieced together texts (NA 2X etc.), versions, manuscripts, concordances, mythological pre-Christian LXXs, interlinears, etc. and anything else that you consider to be "the Bible" and then tell me which version of John 10:10 is TRUTH, as in "Thy word is truth" Jn 17:17. and please, tell me what was "difficult", "archaic" ,"hard to understand", etc. about "more abundantly"?
 Remember, "God is not the author of confusion", or multiple conflicting versions, etc. Ps 119:140, 1 Kings 17:24.

Rachel,
If you are following this string, please do not allow the insertion of this point by Joseph be a distraction to you, hindering you from accepting God's FREE GIFT of salvation by grace through faith alone, if you haven't already. Remember, "devoutness" is not required, only trusting in Him, and what He has already done, for YOU.
In Christ,
Mark
     
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
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katoog
Registered User
Joined: 25 Oct 2015, 17:40

23 Dec 2016, 09:34 #8

Barry Ruckilow wrote:
First, you seem to emphasize "devout Christian" as opposed to one who
is born again, a child of God. There are many, very, very, sincere
people in the world that are trying to make themselves Christians by
following creeds, observing Sabbaths, keeping commandments, prayer,
denying of self, church attendance, etc.. Many of the roads to hell are
paved with sincerity.
 This is especially sad when one considers that
eternal life, the REAL cure for what ails mankind, is a simple, free,
gift. This gift is already paid for, by the only One who had the ability
to pay it. No amount of further piety, or devoutness on your part makes
you any more deserving of salvation than anyone else. You need not
"clean up" your life in order to be saved. (Rom 5:8  ) You simply
accept what He did FOR YOU by faith. (Rom 1:17, 3:22, 3:28, 5:1, Gal
3:24, 3:26, Eph 2:8  )
Rachel,
If you are following this string, please do not allow the insertion of this point by Joseph be a distraction to you, hindering you from accepting God's FREE GIFT of salvation by grace through faith alone, if you haven't already. Remember, "devoutness" is not required, only trusting in Him, and what He has already done, for YOU.     
Now we come we to the real face of your "faith alone" doctrine, the Antinomianism heresy, that is in contradiction with the King James Bible.
Hating His Commandments in their hearts while claiming being Saints.Claiming being Christian while disobeying Him as servants;Never praying because it is not necessary for Salvation.Not caring of a basic Christianity after Baptism.  No helping to spread the real Gospel but keeping at home with the mantra "I believe in Jesus so I'm saved and I don't care of anybody else".Discarding every curse in the Old Testament  and thinking that you are save while building his house upon the sand.; by ignoring to do the will of God.Claiming that the people who were more faithful than you are following the "roads to hell" because they are less slothful then the "faith only preachers" who are in reality "ye that work iniquity" or "workers of lawlessness".
Claiming being one of the elect while believing the lie and don't stop the wicked ways.Having lack of compassion and endurance so that the fake faith (one direction faith: trusting only) is fruitless of good fruit and can only bear the bad fruit of sins.Having talent but not using it because they as the slothful servant in Mat 25:26
Learning that you not need to do your best or to endure as devout to have a bigger reward in the Kingdom of God (or Kingdom of Heavens).Claiming that "you love your thy neighbour as thyself"  but does nothing to help him because this is "works".(for the "weak in spirit" who have a handicap or are children who need to learn have a free ticket to Heaven).
A real Christian should never demotivate people to be a devout and therefore bear the good fruit.He should teach that the peoples need to stop with sinning and obeying God.
Even if everybody is saved except the son of perdition then need you still to obey God rather then the false teachers of the lawless "faith only".
All verses are from the King James 1769:
1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  1Co 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.  Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:  Rom 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 
Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?  Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 
Joh 8:11  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more
1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:  1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.  1Jn 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.  1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.  1Jn 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 
Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.  1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.  1Jn 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.  1Jn 3:7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.  1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.  1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 

Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  

Mat 5:19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 

Mat 5:20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.  Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.  Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  Mat 7:24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:  Mat 7:25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.  Mat 7:26  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:  Mat 7:27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.  
Mat 21:28  But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.  Mat 21:29  He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.  Mat 21:30  And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not.  Mat 21:31  Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.  Mat 21:32  For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Both: faith without works and works without faith are wrong.Real faith is about being faithful.
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
Jas 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only
Last edited by katoog on 23 Dec 2016, 13:04, edited 3 times in total.
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ryld
Registered User
Joined: 21 Oct 2012, 16:14

25 Dec 2016, 13:44 #9

BTW, the poster of the OP is a hit and run troll. Saw this exact post on another site altogether that wasn't on YUKU.
Come to Christ not as a buyer or as a merchant, but as a beggar.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/acu/
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katoog
Registered User
Joined: 25 Oct 2015, 17:40

25 Dec 2016, 18:44 #10

ryld wrote:
BTW, the poster of the OP is a hit and run troll. Saw this exact post on another site altogether that wasn't on YUKU.
By a hit and run troll claims the troll something controversial about immoral actions and flame up a discussion.
Here have we somebody who is sad because it seems that the Promises are not fulfilled while she do her best to obey God.
So she is seeking for support and stories about devout Christians who have more luck.

This is a Christian website so there I expect that there are devout Christians or lurkers.
ryld.formercatholics wroteWe cannot earn that Eternal Life by our good deeds and sacrifices. Those in Christ do good deeds BECAUSE of that Life and not FOR that Life, knowing that God has determined their length of stay here in this creation. Feeling cheated of life after one feels one has earned it actually denies Christ and His Gospel. If anyone could earn such, then Christ died for nought. Such is truly the sign of VAIN RELIGION


Gal 2:21  I do not reject the grace of God: for if righteousness is attainable by the Law, then Christ has died for naught. 


However the reason is because we all have violated the Law with our sins and need therefore the grace of God to attain the Salvation.
The Sacrifice is done and therefore the debt is paid but God has still the choice whose must be saved and whose not.
Who shall be counted by the sheep and who by the goats? Mat 25:31-46

If you claim that the Gospel preach against devout Christians who doing good deeds and try to be righteous then is it time to learn about the real Gospel.


Mar 1:14  [The Gospel].
              And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee,
              preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, 

Mar 1:15  and saying, The time is fulfilled,
              and the Kingdom of God has drawn-near:
              repent ye, and believe the Gospel.




Mat 19:17  But He said to him, Why call Thou Me good?
              None is good, except One, that is, God.
              But if Thou will enter into life, keep the Commandments. Exo_20:3-17 Deu_5:7-21 



Luk 5:32  I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Mar_2:17



The word "repentance" is also in the majority (circa 90%) of  Mar 2:17
So that they are not longer counted as sinners but as righteous.This omission is doctrinal and in contradiction with Joh 9:31

 Joh 9:31  Now we have known that God hears not sinners:
              but if anyone is a worshiper of God, and may do His will, him He hears.


So God does not listen to the sinners but rather by those who want to stop sinning(by repentance) by obeying Him with real faith.



Rom 4:7  saying,
              Blessed are they whose iniquities were forgiven,
              and whose sins were covered! Psa_32:1 

Rom 4:8  Blessed is the man to whom the LORD will not reckon sin! Psa_32:2 

Rom 4:9 

              Comes this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?
              For we say that faith was counted to Abraham for righteousness. Gen_15:6 
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